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Old December 23 2009, 06:56 AM   #16
Mr. Adventure
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Cameron than hopped on top of the bar and bellowed "I'm King of the World!"

I never thought Terminator was that close to the sources that inspired it, I don't know all the ins and outs of legalities and all but I've seen plenty of movies that we're way more rip-offs than what Cameron did with that movie.
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Old December 23 2009, 07:15 AM   #17
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

T'Baio wrote: View Post
TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Allegedly this testimony included Cameron spouting off, "Easiest money I've ever made!" among other things.
That seems unlikely, depending on when this was, seeing as Cameron sold the rights for The Terminator for a dollar.
The bar deal was supposed to have been in the mid-80's before Cameron had really gotten a "name". Again, I've never dug into the allegation to see if it's accurate, and I've never thought to ask during the times I've talked to Torme'. Only reason it popped to mind now is because of this thread.
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Old December 23 2009, 08:02 AM   #18
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Dennis wrote: View Post
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I don't recall Cameron saying or admitting to stealing from Ellison but Ellison has had a great many lawsuits in the past. He's quick to sue and you can't deny that.
Of course you can - you know of several Ellison lawsuits, so you declare him "quick to sue." That's bullshit.

Whether you recall Cameron "admitting to stealing" is no more relevant than whether you recall O.J. Simpson "admitting to armed robbery" in 2007. Both lost in court, and for good reasons.
I can point to a list of lawsuits if you like. It's not like it's a secret.
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Old December 23 2009, 09:10 AM   #19
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Harlan Ellison... Does he even write anymore?

Or does he just make his money on lawsuits these days. His Wikipedia entry has an interesting paragraph on the topic.
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Old December 23 2009, 10:51 AM   #20
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

And Ellison didn't really win...

"he production company that made Terminator, Hemdale, and its distributor Orion Pictures, settled out of court for an undisclosed sum, "gratefully acknowledging" Ellison at the end of the film."

Sound more like they wanted to get rid of Ellison than anything else.

And, as earlier mentioned, the plot of the episodes (allegedly) ripped off isn't really the same at all.
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Old December 23 2009, 01:08 PM   #21
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Teelie wrote: View Post
There are only supposed to be seven "core" stories to be told and everything derives from them. I've never read Poul Anderson's stories but I doubt that Cameron plaguerized the guy either. Convergent ideas and stories crop up all the time. It's unfortunate that Cameron had to give Harlin Ellison money and credit for a similar idea. Harlin is the kind of guy who sues at the sniff of an idea similar to his and Cameron's was just close enough he sued for money and credit.
You may be right about those 7 "core" stories, but I didn't know there was an eighth one called Man in Wheelchair Uses Articial Lifeform to Get Around.
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Old December 23 2009, 01:16 PM   #22
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Cameron than hopped on top of the bar and bellowed "I'm King of the World!"
Wasn't Titanic inspired by A Night to Remember? I've certainly seen that claim.
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Old December 23 2009, 02:22 PM   #23
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Cameron than hopped on top of the bar and bellowed "I'm King of the World!"
Wasn't Titanic inspired by A Night to Remember? I've certainly seen that claim.
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Old December 23 2009, 03:01 PM   #24
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Forbin wrote: View Post
In addition to having something to do with a real disaster, yeah.

Just like Avatar is about colonialism, and also Dances With Wolves and Poul Anderson.
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Old December 23 2009, 05:22 PM   #25
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Well, there's the Anderson story, and there's also Leguin's The Word for World is Forest.

And, of course, Delgo.

Maybe if Avatar actually turns a profit they can look into satisfying all the aggrieved parties.
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Old December 23 2009, 05:54 PM   #26
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Peak wrote: View Post
"he production company that made Terminator, Hemdale, and its distributor Orion Pictures, settled out of court for an undisclosed sum, "gratefully acknowledging" Ellison at the end of the film."

Sound more like they wanted to get rid of Ellison than anything else.




That's not how it works. Or do you know that?

They settled for a lot of money because they stood to lose much, much more. Entertainment companies are particularly eager to settle over these things when they know they're caught, because they don't want the courts setting precedents regarding their plagiarism (see Buchwald v. Paramount).

Cameron's people settled because they were caught red-handed, and for no other reason.

The lengths that people will go to in order to deny the reality of these things are remarkable.



Ellison won.
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Old December 23 2009, 09:03 PM   #27
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

I was pointed to some information on the Ellison suit: it was the Starlog Interview in Issue #89 where Cameron allegedly said that he based it on Harlan's episode in the Outer Limits, and the production company had that stricken from the published version, but Ellison learned of it. The only Outer Limits episode mentioned in Ellison's suit was "Soldier" as far as I can tell.
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Old December 24 2009, 01:55 AM   #28
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Cameron than hopped on top of the bar and bellowed "I'm King of the World!"
Wasn't Titanic inspired by A Night to Remember? I've certainly seen that claim.

Er, they were both inspired bythe same historical event: the sinking of the Titanic. That's not plagiarism, just history.

A NIGHT TO REMEMBER (a great film, btw) didn't exactly invent the business about the ship hitting the iceberg . . . which is about all the films have in common.
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Old December 24 2009, 02:17 AM   #29
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

The movie reminded me of Alan Dean Fosters MidWorld...
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Old December 24 2009, 02:52 AM   #30
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
I was pointed to some information on the Ellison suit: it was the Starlog Interview in Issue #89 where Cameron allegedly said that he based it on Harlan's episode in the Outer Limits, and the production company had that stricken from the published version, but Ellison learned of it. The only Outer Limits episode mentioned in Ellison's suit was "Soldier" as far as I can tell.
Ellison gave an account of the events in this interview.
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