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Old December 24 2009, 12:35 AM   #31
Galactus
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Re: Adobe the year 2009's most hacked software

I am familiar with Photoshop LE and I know it has been around for ages. That does not limit the fact that one of the goals of Elements is to offer an inexpensive options for non professionals so they will consider buying it instead of getting a free pirated copy of Photoshop and that makes good business sense. Why would you assume I don't know the history of Photoshop, because I am not a tech head? (at least not by Trek BBS standards which is a big plus for me)

I was offering the point of why Photoshop is pirated and I understand why. For some professionals it may make perfectly good sense to buy it and for the average person apparently it doesn't and I say that is because of cost and a lot of hatred towards Adobe.

And yes I am asking why and how you took the time to learn programs that you do not use?
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Old December 24 2009, 01:55 AM   #32
Shaw
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Re: Adobe the year 2009's most hacked software

Joy To The World wrote: View Post
Why would you assume I don't know the history of Photoshop, because I am not a tech head? (at least not by Trek BBS standards which is a big plus for me)
It was just the impression I got from the knowledge displayed in your posts... I guess I was wrong in my assumption.

I, of course, know the history because I've been personally using it for years. I'm now confused as to your experiences with it (and hope that knowing the history of Photoshop isn't limited to a Wikipedia entry).

I am familiar with Photoshop LE and I know it has been around for ages. That does not limit the fact that one of the goals of Elements is to offer an inexpensive options for non professionals so they will consider buying it instead of getting a free pirated copy of Photoshop and that makes good business sense.
Again, piracy wasn't a major issue originally... but I guess you knew that (knowing the history and all).

But I would point out that most people don't pirate software. You talk about it as though that was an option that everyone considers. I can only imagine that this is because it was an option you, personally, considered, but most people wouldn't.

I was offering the point of why Photoshop is pirated and I understand why. For some professionals it may make perfectly good sense to buy it and for the average person apparently it doesn't and I say that is because of cost and a lot of hatred towards Adobe.
Hatred towards Adobe? No one forces anyone to use Adobe products. Why waste emotional energy like hating when all you have to do is ignore them?

Adobe sells both professional products and entry level products, most of the complaining here is that the professional products cost more than entry level ones. I charged my clients two different rates depending on if they are home users or professional users. Home users make no money from their computers, where as professional users earn a living via their systems. Why would I charge the same rates for both when one group is making money and other is not?

And yes I am asking why and how you took the time to learn programs that you do not use?
I'm a computer consultant. I need to know what is available, how it works, and what it's strengths and weaknesses are when advising my clients. I can't do that if I don't know anything about the possible solutions available. Plus I do training in many of the applications to help people get up to speed quickly (specially if I recommended the product).

And then there is the trouble shooting aspect of the service side of my work. How can I hope to fix an issue with an application if I'm not even sure how the application itself functions? I've taken the time to gain a minimum amount of experience in most of the applications that might be used by my clients.

Again, I hate the one size fits all mentality displayed too often in discussions like this. I don't make the same recommendations for all my clients because they are all different. How can I tailor a solution to best meat my client's needs if I don't know all the options?

You can never know enough, and I enjoy learning. And once you've learnt something, you always have it. Plus once you've acquired the skills of gathering knowledge quickly and efficiently, it can be applied to just about anything (including Star Trek ).

But lets not assume I'm saying that this is how everyone should approach this type of stuff... I learned a long time ago that I pick up things significantly faster than the average person, and I use that to my advantage. I also have a very broad range of interests, but fortunately being skilled at a lot of different tools (computer and otherwise) means I can play around in them.
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Old December 24 2009, 02:41 AM   #33
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Re: Adobe the year 2009's most hacked software

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
This really just the same old, "Well, I'm not used to using it and don't know how to all of its tools, therefore it's not as usable/efficient and thus not as good." That's nonsense.
No, you are wrong. It isn't nonsense, workflow and usability are extremely important for productivity in a professional environment.

The thing of it is, though, since it's open source, with a little know-how, one can figure it to be as usable and efficient and he needs it to be. There are also several builds out there (like five or six) that have been designed to function more like Photoshop.
I'm sure our IT department would love being required to support all of them.

This seems to get missed by a lot of people for reasons I've never understood. Not all Photoshop users are freelance graphic designers. Some of us are staff artists working in large corporations who have spent years building skills and workflow using certain tools. Some skills are easily portable across software. Some are not. And especially in these environments, having a support line is a necessity. Further, when you're on a deadline... and this applies to anyone doing paid work, not just people in a corporate environment... you don't have time to toss out your old workflow and build new ones.

OSS is great. In principle I love it and have frequently used many OSS projects on my own time. But at work? Frequently OSS just can't compete with the tools that have large development budgets behind them. And to dismiss it as just "people are lazy" as you seem to be doing is entirely missing the point. Even the GIMP project itself is clear that they do not have the same vision as Photoshop and thus will never do things the same way. And that's fine, more power to them. But that means that for the foreseeable duration, Photoshop is the right tool for a lot of jobs.

Shaw wrote:
Hatred towards Adobe? No one forces anyone to use Adobe products. Why waste emotional energy like hating when all you have to do is ignore them?
I will happily go on record to say that, yes, I absolutely can't stand every single project that Adobe pushes out. I hate Adobe. Hate hate hate.

Except Lightroom. I like Lightroom still. For now.
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Old December 24 2009, 04:39 AM   #34
Galactus
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Re: Adobe the year 2009's most hacked software

Shaw wrote: View Post
I'm a computer consultant.....
Well that explains it all. I understand completely where you are coming from.

No I have never considered using pirated software, I don't even download music. I either purchase it or use things offered freely. I don't know what the number is of people who do otherwise, I would say it is significant though. It is your field so I will bow to your expertise.
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Old December 24 2009, 04:06 PM   #35
Chess Piece Face
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Re: Adobe the year 2009's most hacked software

I paid for CS3 Designer Bundle and for the entire CS4 Creative Suite, and no I don't have money to burn. These are the tools of my trade.

If you want to cut somebody's head out of a picture and put it on something funny and type FAIL under it to post on the internet, PS Elements is 99 bucks. Stop complaining, or use something else. You don't need the entire CS Creative Suite for that.
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Old December 26 2009, 05:39 PM   #36
FordSVT
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Re: Adobe the year 2009's most hacked software

Shaw wrote: View Post
People who can't afford it don't need it. People who need it, it'll pay for itself. People who want it just to have it complain about the price (even though Photoshop Elements is under hundred dollars).
This. If someone is running a pirated version of Photoshop he uses 99% of the time just to make thread bombs and custom BBS avatars it's no surprise he finds it expensive.
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Old December 26 2009, 05:58 PM   #37
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Re: Adobe the year 2009's most hacked software

The adobe creative suite is the most invaluable tool I use at work, particularly Illustrator, I produce a huge amount of vector illustrations and spot colour work. For the average home user all that matters is what it looks like on screen, but for the people it is actually designed for it gets much MUCH more technical than that. Even a lot of highly trained designers don't seem to have any idea about how to prepare work like this for the press. I spend an awful lot of time fixing work from people that only know how to make things look pretty so that it can actually physically be printed using the processes they were expecting.

Your average design school graduate doesn't have the first clue how to prepare a piece of 4 col process + 2 spot work, or the various and lengthy technical requirements that go hand in hand with that sort of work.

When it gets to press I have to be absolutely sure that the printed results are exactly what I was expecting, there is no other software I trust in that respect. Illustrator is an incredibly powerful and complex piece of software, I don't consider it overpriced at all.
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