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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 16 2009, 07:16 AM   #16
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Seventh White Boomer wrote: View Post
Given Winn is missing you would think they would check out her residence and that is probably slimy with Dukat's DNA. So they would be able to put him on Bajor and maybe tie him to the missing Winn, probably say he kidnap and killed her. Also if they bother to check the firecaves they would find more DNA. Not sure what happened to the poison goblet but if they find that they might come to the conclusion Dukat is dead given his dirty hands and spit are all over it.
Hm...interesting point about the Kai's residence. Now, I am not sure about DNA evidence in the Fire Caves, given the fire and weird energies we saw in there, but that is an interesting pint.

One question...when surgery of the sort that Dukat got is done, though, are there genetic alterations or no?

Also...do you think there are any recording devices that would've caught Dukat's voice? THAT is something I have a feeling would be recognized. (Example--do you think he was in any public areas on DS9 where a voiceprint could've been captured?)
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Old December 16 2009, 07:22 AM   #17
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Kai Winn wrote: View Post
was there not plenty of time to destroy the thing earlier?
Yes, but unfortunatley, Amazon's Kindle put a damper on that with electronic book distribution. These days, any religious zealot or angry teenager can summon Cthulu or Pah Wraiths or some other such blood-curdling nonsense.
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Old December 16 2009, 08:59 AM   #18
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Noel Ghemor wrote: View Post

One question...when surgery of the sort that Dukat got is done, though, are there genetic alterations or no?
If there were they weren't enough to prevent Solbor from using his DNA to identify him as not only a Cardassian but Dukat.

Kai Winn wrote: View Post
was there not plenty of time to destroy the thing earlier?
It must have been a matter of how it was destroyed. The book was magical.
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Old December 16 2009, 02:36 PM   #19
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Kai Winn wrote: View Post
well, sisko's body probably didn't do any better than dukat's in the fire, but he has no use of it as a wormhole resident alien, anyway. for prophets as well as pah-wraiths has time no meaning, i'm not sure serving time imprisoned is a penalty at all. wasn't it stated that the pah-wraiths were imprisoned for the first time 20,000 years ago to the caves, so the necronomicon of kosst amojan must be somewhat older? was there not plenty of time to destroy the thing earlier?
Yep, if it's a matter of physical body being dead - Sisko's is as dead as Dukat's. So if Sisko is not considered dead and can come back in relaunch novels, I don't see where that certainty that Dukat is dead comes from.

My guess is that Dukat is officially considered disappeared. As for his actual fate, it is wide open.
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Old December 16 2009, 05:58 PM   #20
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Re: Dukat's Fate

ElfEars wrote: View Post
Kai Winn wrote: View Post
well, sisko's body probably didn't do any better than dukat's in the fire, but he has no use of it as a wormhole resident alien, anyway. for prophets as well as pah-wraiths has time no meaning, i'm not sure serving time imprisoned is a penalty at all. wasn't it stated that the pah-wraiths were imprisoned for the first time 20,000 years ago to the caves, so the necronomicon of kosst amojan must be somewhat older? was there not plenty of time to destroy the thing earlier?
Yep, if it's a matter of physical body being dead - Sisko's is as dead as Dukat's. So if Sisko is not considered dead and can come back in relaunch novels, I don't see where that certainty that Dukat is dead comes from.

My guess is that Dukat is officially considered disappeared. As for his actual fate, it is wide open.
Sisko's body wasn't poisoned like Dukat's had been. But I haven't read Unity.
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Old December 17 2009, 01:05 AM   #21
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Re: Dukat's Fate

I agree with the others that said that Sisko's body is gone. Otherwise how would he be able to 'physically' interact with the disembodied Sarah-prophet as well as the transcendental Kasidy.

That said, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for the Prophets to retrieve Sisko's body from the moment it disintegrated in the Fire Caves, restore it with his disembodied form in the Temple and send it to a future point in the timeline. Especially given the fact that Sisko promised his return.
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Old December 17 2009, 04:43 PM   #22
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Well, if I was writing for DS9 season 8, I'd have a plot point that Sisko returns, but at the same time, for him to return, Dukat and the Jem'Hadar ships that vanish in Sacrifice of Angels have to come back too. So we have Sisko back, Dukat back, and a thousand Jemmie ships who think there's still a war on.

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Old December 17 2009, 04:51 PM   #23
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Re: Dukat's Fate

^ As long as it isn't for DS9 season 8 I say go for it.

Though I guess it makes as much sense as what happened to the parasite Queen in Unity.
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Old December 18 2009, 01:15 AM   #24
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Re: Dukat's Fate

ElfEars wrote: View Post
Kai Winn wrote: View Post
well, sisko's body probably didn't do any better than dukat's in the fire, but he has no use of it as a wormhole resident alien, anyway. for prophets as well as pah-wraiths has time no meaning, i'm not sure serving time imprisoned is a penalty at all. wasn't it stated that the pah-wraiths were imprisoned for the first time 20,000 years ago to the caves, so the necronomicon of kosst amojan must be somewhat older? was there not plenty of time to destroy the thing earlier?
Yep, if it's a matter of physical body being dead - Sisko's is as dead as Dukat's. So if Sisko is not considered dead and can come back in relaunch novels, I don't see where that certainty that Dukat is dead comes from.

My guess is that Dukat is officially considered disappeared. As for his actual fate, it is wide open.
Much as I love Dukat I hope relaunch never goes there (bringing him back). With Sisko there were enough prophecies and indications he would return for it to be expected.

I just assumed Dukat somehow became a Pah Wraith after he fell into the caves. Kai Winn they had no use for, so she is dead.
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Old December 18 2009, 06:50 PM   #25
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Re: Dukat's Fate

snakespeare--Dukat's body was poisoned, yes, but wouldn't Sisko's body have been charred? If Sisko were restored to corporeal form, that would certainly have to be overcome, perhaps even entailing a new body being made for him. IF the Pah-Wraiths preserved Dukat (and that is the big if), I don't see why they couldn't make Dukat a new body without the effects of the flames OR the poison.
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Old December 18 2009, 09:05 PM   #26
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Noel Ghemor wrote: View Post
snakespeare--Dukat's body was poisoned, yes, but wouldn't Sisko's body have been charred? If Sisko were restored to corporeal form, that would certainly have to be overcome, perhaps even entailing a new body being made for him. IF the Pah-Wraiths preserved Dukat (and that is the big if), I don't see why they couldn't make Dukat a new body without the effects of the flames OR the poison.
Or, since they are not linear, maybe, instead of making a new body, they put his spirit in his old body some time before it was charred...

if that even makes sense...
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Old December 18 2009, 09:08 PM   #27
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Not sure...at least the way I read it, that would require creating an alternate timeline branching off from the one where Sisko's body burned in the Fire Caves.
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Old December 19 2009, 05:49 AM   #28
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Re: Dukat's Fate

Noel Ghemor wrote: View Post
Seventh White Boomer wrote: View Post
Given Winn is missing you would think they would check out her residence and that is probably slimy with Dukat's DNA. So they would be able to put him on Bajor and maybe tie him to the missing Winn, probably say he kidnap and killed her. Also if they bother to check the firecaves they would find more DNA. Not sure what happened to the poison goblet but if they find that they might come to the conclusion Dukat is dead given his dirty hands and spit are all over it.
Hm...interesting point about the Kai's residence. Now, I am not sure about DNA evidence in the Fire Caves, given the fire and weird energies we saw in there, but that is an interesting pint.

One question...when surgery of the sort that Dukat got is done, though, are there genetic alterations or no?
One would expect not, since that would seem to require a lot more time and pain than they seem to expend on cosmetic surgery... and indeed, why bother? If they can't tell that that guy is Dukat just because he isn't wearing his ankhface anymore, they probably aren't smart enough to figure DNA analysis out.
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Old January 1 2010, 08:37 PM   #29
Navaros
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Re: Dukat's Fate

I totally disagree with all those saying that Dukat died and am not buying this "Dukat died before he fell into the flames" argument at all. Not sure where some posters are getting that from, that is not what the show presents. The show presents Dukat as alive and well as taunts Sisko to stop him. It is seeming like many members are mixing up the non-canon books with the canon show.

After they fall into the flames, the wormhole aliens make it clear that Dukat didn't die any moreso than Sisko did.

Dukat is still alive and well, playing poker and scheming with is Pah-Wraith buddies.

If Dukat is dead, then Sisko is dead too. End of story.
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Old January 2 2010, 08:56 AM   #30
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Re: Dukat's Fate

That to me (my opinion) was such a stupid storyline in DS9. Kai Winn, Nurse Ratched of the religion of the beautiful people, and Gul Dukat. What was Dukat's deal anyway? I want to kill Sisko, so I am going to ally myself with these demonic aliens

I wonder how much it would of cost DS9 to bring back Jack Nicholson for a one day shoot as a Pah Wraith coming back to life to smash Kai Winn's head to the ground? I'm sure Jack likes Trek and would of done it.
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