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Old December 16 2009, 12:34 AM   #46
Data Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Longinus wrote: View Post
Engineering red? But red is cadets. Besides, Scotty had a yellow shirt...
Engineering was red in TOS, it was red in TMP. Command and operations was yellow/gold/tan in Cage, TOS, TMP. Cadets/midshipmen were Gray in Cage, TOS, and TMP.

That is one of those continuity changes which drives me up a wall.
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Old December 16 2009, 01:21 AM   #47
Longinus
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Things change..?

Engineering is yellow in TNG, so having the switch happen at the introduction of TWOK uniforms makes as much sense as it happening later.
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Old December 16 2009, 02:25 AM   #48
Data Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Longinus wrote: View Post
Things change..?

Engineering is yellow in TNG, so having the switch happen at the introduction of TWOK uniforms makes as much sense as it happening later.
The best thing was what they did in TMP which was to dump the division colors from the uniforms all together. That was one of the best things about the TMP uniforms, and why it was such a shame they got dumped on and dropped from later treks, instead of simply improved upon.

The fanfic, which used the above mentioned division break down, kept that system. I adapted it to the TWOK style uniforms.

So with the turtle necks (or class C uniform), enlisted and petty officers wear brown. Chiefs and junior officers (warrant to Lt Cmdr) wear "beige", though I refereed to it as khaki. Senior officers (Cmdr on up) wear Blue-gray. All jackets worn over the turtle neck, Ie the ships service jacket (class B) and Service & Full dress (derived from the TWOK monster Maroon) were in Loden Green like Kirk's dress uniform in TMP.

Class C's displayed division on the TMP like chest insignia. Class B's on the jacket shoulder tabs, And dress uniforms on the shoulder closure strap and on the sleeves (Length of service band for enlisted, chiefs, and warrant, or between the officer's gold sleeve lace.
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Old December 16 2009, 06:06 AM   #49
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Data Holmes wrote: View Post
The best thing was what they did in TMP which was to dump the division colors from the uniforms all together. That was one of the best things about the TMP uniforms, and why it was such a shame they got dumped on and dropped from later treks, instead of simply improved upon.
Well, the shoulder rank tabs, Starfleet arrowhead, and a stripe on the away mission jackets all displayed division colors, IIRC.
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Old December 16 2009, 06:21 AM   #50
Data Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Data Holmes wrote: View Post
The best thing was what they did in TMP which was to dump the division colors from the uniforms all together. That was one of the best things about the TMP uniforms, and why it was such a shame they got dumped on and dropped from later treks, instead of simply improved upon.
Well, the shoulder rank tabs, Starfleet arrowhead, and a stripe on the away mission jackets all displayed division colors, IIRC.
Yes, but the whole uniform wasn't division color. Thus all the uniforms are uniform, and you don't have a "magic rainbow" of skittle people.
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Old December 16 2009, 11:40 AM   #51
Longinus
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Data Holmes wrote: View Post
Yes, but the whole uniform wasn't division color. Thus all the uniforms are uniform, and you don't have a "magic rainbow" of skittle people.
I can understand that sentiment, but to me primary coloured uniforms are a big part of the iconic Star Trek look, made it sense or not.
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Old December 17 2009, 09:44 PM   #52
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

i have always thought that twok uniforms would have looked much better if they had had the under shirt be the same division colors as in tos. gol. blue and red. have the shoulder strap gold blue or red as well and have the years sevice pins on the shoulder strap. have the badge that is underneath the starfleet symbol be in the same gold blue or red division color as well. lastly have the rank on the sleeves just like tos but use the braid from tmp.
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Old December 17 2009, 10:35 PM   #53
RapidNadion
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

^ I'm with you, as far as the (toned down) TOS division colors on the turtleneck and shoulder strap/wrist cuff. But the rest of it would be ... well, I wouldn't like the rest of it.
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Old December 17 2009, 11:20 PM   #54
ncc-1017-e
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

^ i like the rank system from tos.
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Old December 18 2009, 12:04 AM   #55
Longinus
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

ncc-1017-e wrote: View Post
i have always thought that twok uniforms would have looked much better if they had had the under shirt be the same division colors as in tos. gol. blue and red. have the shoulder strap gold blue or red as well and have the years sevice pins on the shoulder strap. have the badge that is underneath the starfleet symbol be in the same gold blue or red division color as well. lastly have the rank on the sleeves just like tos but use the braid from tmp.
Red shirts look bad with red jackets though.
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Old December 18 2009, 04:55 PM   #56
ncc-1017-e
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

^that may be true but they did use that color combination in twok.
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Old December 18 2009, 08:16 PM   #57
Tom Riley
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

The turtleneck looked more orangey than red to me....
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Old December 18 2009, 09:26 PM   #58
Longinus
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

ncc-1017-e wrote: View Post
^that may be true but they did use that color combination in twok.
Yes, and it did look bad, though I never liked grey shirts either, they just looked like dirty white shirts.
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Old December 19 2009, 12:04 AM   #59
Shamrock Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

First I've got to say that I love the "Class B" variations of the TWOK uniform, I think if they had had those options in canon, the combination would be my fav ST uniform ever.

I've also had some thoughts on the "fix the colors" debate:

Undershirts in four colors to designate rank:

White: Admirality.

Khaki: Commissioned Officers (based on canon Class A jacket lining)

Red: Cadets.

Black: Enlisted.


In addition, department would be indicated by jacket closures etc (as canon) and epalettes on the undershirt according to the following scheme:

White: Admiralty, Headquarters Staff, Diplomatic Corps
Gold: Command, Pilots
Blue: Sciences
Green: Medical
Brown: Security. Armory & Weapons Officers
Red: Engineering and Operations
Gray: Cadets, Trainees, Trainers, Recruiters

(NB: Brown is based on the idea that Brown appeared to be the "divisional color" - or at least the one most associated with - the MACOs. Gray and Red are potentially interchangeable but given the weight of history, I'd favor the combination above).

As far as Rank Insignia go, I like the Enlisted and Flag ranks as is, however I'd suggest a though or two regarding the Commissioned ranks. I like the pins for Captain, Commander and Lieutenant Commander, but I don't like the Ensign, Lieutenant JG and Lieutenant's pins. So I'd use the simpler "commander" pin style for Junior Officers (1 Gold Bar for Ensigns, 2 for Lt JG, 3 for Lt) and the more complex "captain" pin style for Senior Officers (1 Gold Bar for Lieutenant Commanders, 2 Gold Bars for Commanders and the canon three for Captains).

Last edited by Shamrock Holmes; December 19 2009 at 01:33 AM. Reason: To add thoughts on ranks
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Old December 19 2009, 03:11 PM   #60
ncc-1017-e
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

^ a little confused i am now lol
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