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Old December 10 2009, 11:25 PM   #31
Icarus68954
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Longinus wrote: View Post
http://ex-astris-scientia.org/galler...-uniforms6.jpg

This one here? Yes, Kirk wore it in Star Trek V. It was certainly one of the inspirations for the earlier class B, but in itself it does not really look like uniform meant for general use.
Yeah that's the one (EAS blocks hotlinking by the way, but I know the image). But yes, I do think Morrow wears it, and obviously Kirk does (which I had forgotten apparently). You're right about its impracticability certainly. I mean, the damn thing appears to be suede.
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Old December 11 2009, 01:00 AM   #32
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Icarus68954 wrote: View Post
Yeah that's the one (EAS blocks hotlinking by the way, but I know the image).
Crap.

I changed the link.
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Old December 11 2009, 01:00 AM   #33
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Longinus wrote: View Post
These are variations for the early 24th century, before the TNG uniforms were adopted.



Officer's duty uniforms inspired by Kirk's Nexus vest. For these less fancy uniforms red has been phased out except for the senior officers. The red version of the coat is only worn by the captain and the first officer. Science and medical has again been combined under a single colour. Movie uniforms remain as formal wear.



Alternate jumpsuits. Mostly worn by enlisted personnel, but also on occasion by officers that find pockets handy, such as engineers.
Very cool
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Old December 11 2009, 04:57 AM   #34
MarianLH
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Longinus wrote: View Post
http://www.st-spike.org/images/unifo...78-2350/a1.jpg

This one here? Yes, Kirk wore it in Star Trek V.

Over his "go climb a rock" t-shirt. Definitely a casual look. And yeah, Morrow wore one too, in the Spacedock lounge scene where he won't let Kirk go to Genesis. I can't think of anyone under the rank of captain who ever wore one--unlike the white turtleneck for department heads. Scotty didn't switch to that until after he made captain, but Saavik was wearing it as Grissom's chief science officer even though she was only a lieutenant.


Marian
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Old December 11 2009, 05:11 AM   #35
Data Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

MarianLH wrote: View Post
Longinus wrote: View Post
http://www.st-spike.org/images/unifo...78-2350/a1.jpg

This one here? Yes, Kirk wore it in Star Trek V.

Over his "go climb a rock" t-shirt. Definitely a casual look. And yeah, Morrow wore one too, in the Spacedock lounge scene where he won't let Kirk go to Genesis. I can't think of anyone under the rank of captain who ever wore one--unlike the white turtleneck for department heads. Scotty didn't switch to that until after he made captain, but Saavik was wearing it as Grissom's chief science officer even though she was only a lieutenant.


Marian
I've seen it said that she was the science and XO of the Grissom.
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Old December 11 2009, 06:15 AM   #36
OhCaptainMyCaptain
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Longinus wrote: View Post
Inspired by this thread:
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=109779

It was proposed that maybe the late 23th (and early 24th) century uniforms -that were radical departure from any Star Fleet uniform before or after this era- actually were more formal class-A uniforms, and there existed a less militaristic looking class-B variant. So here is my suggestion for class-B officer's uniform:



I am not actually sure if I like them myself, anyhow, here they are.

(Based on uniform templates originally published in Star Trek: the Magazine.)
Absolutely amazing! This is something I can easilly see, in my minds eye, in any of TWOK-era movies. The TWOK uniforms are far and away my favorites and this is a perfect variation on them.

Well done!

Oh, may I ask what program and/or template you used?
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Old December 11 2009, 06:46 AM   #37
Longinus
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Marley's Ghost wrote: View Post
Oh, may I ask what program and/or template you used?
I used Photoshop. They are based on those movie uniform pics that were originally published in the Star Trek Magazine, if I recall correctly.
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Old December 11 2009, 07:06 AM   #38
OhCaptainMyCaptain
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Well, you did a splendid, and seamless job-your Photoshop skills are miles ahead of mine! I'm no great fan of the TNG uniforms-they looked, in a word, too "costumey" for my tastes. I'd much rather have seen your 24th century designs in the series-your designs looked far more like real, working clothes, while retaining much of the flavor of the original costumes.

I have one thought about the wonderful class B uniforms for the Movie-Era though: would nametags, such as the ones the enlisted jumpsuits had in TUC, work? I think they'd be a neat touch, but that's small stuff.

The class B's are a wonderful workaday variant, suitable for day-to-day tasks, yet completely in keeping with (and entirely complementary to) the Robert Fletcher designs.

Kudos and thanks for sharing!
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Old December 11 2009, 06:37 PM   #39
MarianLH
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Data Holmes wrote: View Post
I've seen it said that she was the science and XO of the Grissom.
Source for the XO part?


Marian
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Old December 11 2009, 09:23 PM   #40
Data Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

MarianLH wrote: View Post
Data Holmes wrote: View Post
I've seen it said that she was the science and XO of the Grissom.
Source for the XO part?


Marian
Somewhere once it was stated that they forgot to put a gray slash on her shoulder strap like was on her sleeve band, which you can see part of here: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...tsfshd0277.jpg This is where they get that she was the science officer on the ship, as per Fletcher's notes on the uniforms. As for XO, Fletcher's notes also comment that only command officers aboard ship wear the white turtle neck, where as offices in command of their division wear their division shirt. So her white turtleneck shirt suggests she was in the line of command for the ship.

This is the evidence which is used to theorize that she was pulling double duty as both SO and XO.
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Old December 11 2009, 11:27 PM   #41
MarianLH
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

According to this, Fletcher's notes allow division heads to optionally wear the white turtleneck instead of their division color:
Command officers who are attached to particular division, such as Commander McCoy, as head of his division on shipboard, may wear white slashes on his green sleeve band and shoulder strap or white sleeve band and strap with green slashes. The shirt colour in these cases is a matter of personal discretion.
(empasis mine)

Case in point, Scotty. It's true he didn't start until he was promoted to captain, but Fletcher's example cited McCoy, who was only a commander, so presumably rank is not a factor.

It was the white turtleneck, combined with the gray slash on the sleeve band, that led me to infer that Saavik was Grissom's chief science officer. She could also be the XO, but the white turtleneck isn't conclusive. In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest it.


Marian
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Old December 12 2009, 08:04 PM   #42
Data Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

MarianLH wrote: View Post
According to this, Fletcher's notes allow division heads to optionally wear the white turtleneck instead of their division color:
Command officers who are attached to particular division, such as Commander McCoy, as head of his division on shipboard, may wear white slashes on his green sleeve band and shoulder strap or white sleeve band and strap with green slashes. The shirt colour in these cases is a matter of personal discretion.
(empasis mine)

Case in point, Scotty. It's true he didn't start until he was promoted to captain, but Fletcher's example cited McCoy, who was only a commander, so presumably rank is not a factor.

It was the white turtleneck, combined with the gray slash on the sleeve band, that led me to infer that Saavik was Grissom's chief science officer. She could also be the XO, but the white turtleneck isn't conclusive. In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest it.


Marian
Read the next line:

Usually only commanding officers on ship board wear white shirts. Other officers in command of their divisions generally stick to shirts of their division colour and display white slashes on their sleeves & straps.
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Old December 13 2009, 06:42 PM   #43
MarianLH
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Okay, yeah, I missed that.


Marian
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Old December 14 2009, 11:03 PM   #44
Data Holmes
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

MarianLH wrote: View Post
Okay, yeah, I missed that.


Marian
That's ok. While I love the work that Fletcher did with trek's uniforms, both the TMP and TWOK series of uniforms, the TWOK series's divisions and division exceptions always bothered me. One they left a little to much open and strayed a little too far from TOS.

I attempted to fix these problems once for a fan fic I wrote. I changed the division system and exception systems, starting from TOS and working forward.

Here are my notes on how I changed the system.

DEPARTMENT

**Note that this manual represents the departmental restructuring of 2270. Prior to that the
Departments of Operations and Tactical did not exist, and Engineering was Services Division. **

Command - White, Gold

**Notes: White is used for the Command department on all Dress uniforms as well as the Ship
Service Uniform. For Working and Field Service uniforms, Command Still uses the Operations Gold as the only personal within a ships command structure authorized to wear command white are the CO, XO, First Lieutenant, and Command CPO.**

Academy - Maroon*

*Special Note: All Starfleet Academy, Starfleet merchant academy, Starfleet Reserve Officer Training Corps Midshipman, and Officer Candidate School and Staff Officer School Officer Candidates, as well as all Star Fleet Trainees use the Maroon division color*

Operations - Gold

**Notes: Operations is composed of Communications, Navigation, Flight Control, Logistics, and Administration.**

Tactical - Gray
Weapons - Gray
Security & Marines - Windsor Green

**Notes: Tactical was created in 2270 as part of the Shipboard Departmental restructuring. Security, Gunnery, and Defensive Systems were taken from Services (the latter two being combined into the Weapons Division) and were combined with the Mobile Ground Force Detatchment.**


Engineering - Red

**Notes: With the removal of the Security, Gunnery, and Defensive Systems divisions, the Services Department was renamed the Engineering Department. The remaining Divisions are Transportation, Civil Engineering and Ships Computer Maintenance.**

Sciences - Blue
Science - Blue
Medical - Light Green

**Notes: Sciences Department remains unchanged organizationally. However, the Medical Division was allowed to add a light green alternative working uniform. Originally intended to be used only while on away missions or with marine units, it became very popular amongst the medical community and was authorized for all medical personnel to wear within the "medical bay" section of the ship.**

DIVISION EXCEPTIONS

**Note: All Exceptions apply to both officers and enlisted unless otherwise noted.**


Star Fleet Training Command

Midshipman, Officer Candidate, and Trainee special full dress - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear imposed slashes of the color of the division to which they will be assigned. For command track, the slash is white. Maroon Division shirt.

Academy/SFROTC/OCS/SOS Instructors - Wear command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with maroon slashes and a particular division stripe in the middle of the maroon slash. Normal division shirt (medical, operations, ect).

Academy/SFROTC/OCS/SOS Staff - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with maroon slashes. Maroon division shirt.

Academy Superintendent and Commandant - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with maroon slashes. White division shirt.



Division and Department heads.

Division Heads - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear imposed slashes of white. Division colored shirt.

Department Heads - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards are white with imposed slashes of their
department. Division colored shirt.




Staff Noncommissioned Officers

Command Master Chief Petty Officer - Sleeve bands and Shoulder boards bear imposed stripe of silver lace.

Fleet/Force Master Chief Petty Officer - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear imposed stripe of gold lace.

Master Chief Petty Officer of the Star Fleet - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear two imposed stripes of gold lace.

Post Tour MCPO-SF Special Full Dress - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear two imposed
strips of silver lace.

Officers of Flag Rank

Flag Officers - Wear command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards, and command white
division shirt.

Staff Officers of Flag Rank - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with imposed slashes of their department, and division colored shirt.


General Staff Officers

General Staff Junior Officers - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards are division color and bear
imposed slashes of white. Command white division shirt.

General Staff Senior Officers - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards are white with imposed slashes
of their department. Command white division shirt

General Staff Flag Officers - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with imposed slashes of their department, and command white division shirt.
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Last edited by Data Holmes; December 14 2009 at 11:21 PM.
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Old December 15 2009, 03:10 PM   #45
Longinus
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Re: Conjectural movie era uniforms

Engineering red? But red is cadets. Besides, Scotty had a yellow shirt...
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