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Old December 6 2009, 08:10 AM   #1
Lord Garth
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The uniform change around 2350

For decades, from as early as 2278 ("Cause and Effect" - TNG) to as late as 2349 ("Family" - TNG), Starfleet had the TWOK-style uniforms. They may have been modified later on but it was still basically the same uniform for over 70 years.

Then, by 2354 ("Violations" - TNG), Starfleet has changed over to the early-TNG uniforms.

Now, think about that for a moment: there's a major difference between those two uniforms and it seems like it would be a radical change to go straight from one to the other.

What prompted going from a multi-piece uniform (including the jacket) that looks militaristic and probably too fomral for its own good to one-piece spandex jumpsuits?

There must've been a change in Starfleet's outlook or philosophy around then. Or the times must have been changing. What would've been changing and what would the uniforms be reflecting as a result?
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Old December 6 2009, 08:15 AM   #2
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

The same question could be asked about the dramatic change in uniforms from TOS and TMP. Then again between the time of TMP and TWOK.

Maybe Starfleet was more in a military mode during those years and then by the time of TNG was more of an exploration mode?

That or the uniform designers lost the highly coveted Starfleet contract, and the top brass went with someone else by TNG.
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Old December 6 2009, 08:20 AM   #3
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

Wasn't this around the same time as the Cardassian border conflicts? I'm not sure what one would have to do with the other, but it's a possibility.
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Old December 6 2009, 08:26 AM   #4
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

I don't think the TOS->TMP change was as dramatic as the TMP->TWOK or the TWOK->TNG changes were.

From TMP->TWOK, I can see it as a combination of the TMP uniforms being unpopular (mirroring real-life cast discomfort and fan reaction) and Starfleet wanting to go for a more militaristic look. I'd think it would be easier for a military to want to look more military than to look less.

For the TOS->TMP switch, I think it was an experiment: changing the colors of the tunics and having the lower-body match upper. It's more of a major modification than a complete and total change from scratch.

With the TWOK->TNG switch, I'm leaning heavily towards the absence of the Romulans for decades, friendship with the Klingons, and only worrying about Cardassians in remote border disputes, leading Starfleet taking a less aggressive look since there was less of a need for it and it showed that Starfleet was more evolved.

Maybe with Starfleet becoming more exploratory again, there was a feeling of nostalgia for Kirk's time during the five-year mission and might've been an influence for designers who wanted to go in a different direction.

Kelso wrote: View Post
Wasn't this around the same time as the Cardassian border conflicts? I'm not sure what one would have to do with the other, but it's a possibility.
Neither do I, really, but I think fashion reflects the times no matter what century it is.
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Old December 6 2009, 08:26 AM   #5
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

Times like this, I like to stick my fingers in my ears and pretend really really hard that TNG actually takes place something like twenty years after TUC. The entire Trekiverse just works so much better without that big weird 80 year gap of nothing crammed into the timeline.
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Old December 6 2009, 08:45 AM   #6
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

what?

eighty years of NOTHING?

the Tomed Incident? the Betreka Nebula Incident? Narendra III and Khitomer? the Cardassian, Talarian and Tzenkethi conflicts? the battle of Maxia? a Tholian attack on a starbase?
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Old December 6 2009, 08:45 AM   #7
Lord Garth
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

Well, more like 30 years of nothing.

It does seem really stagnant in the middle of the missing years, where there's absolutely nothing from 2311-2344. The Star Trek Universe seems like it was in a deep freeze between the Tomed Incident and the loss of the Enterprise-C.

EDIT: If I were TPTB and revisting the Prime Universe, my second choice for a timeframe (after the 25th Century) would probably be 2326, smack in the middle of what I consider the Dead Period. If anything, so it wouldn't be such an obvious sagging point.
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Old December 6 2009, 11:12 AM   #8
Longinus
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
Well, more like 30 years of nothing.

It does seem really stagnant in the middle of the missing years, where there's absolutely nothing from 2311-2344. The Star Trek Universe seems like it was in a deep freeze between the Tomed Incident and the loss of the Enterprise-C.
Yeah, that has always bugged me as well.
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Old December 6 2009, 02:16 PM   #9
C.E. Evans
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

^^^
Peacetime isn't that exciting, perhaps?

IMO, that's simply what happened during that period. I'm sure there were minor conflicts here and there, but nothing that seriously threatened the survival of the Federation and its member worlds for any real length of time. This period of relative tranquility probably lead to Starfleet to focus more on peaceful pursuits and the TNG uniforms were introduced to reflect this new era in the same way the First Contact uniforms might have reflected a more turbulent time, IMO...
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Old December 6 2009, 04:08 PM   #10
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
For decades, from as early as 2278 ("Cause and Effect" - TNG) to as late as 2349 ("Family" - TNG), Starfleet had the TWOK-style uniforms. They may have been modified later on but it was still basically the same uniform for over 70 years.

Then, by 2354 ("Violations" - TNG), Starfleet has changed over to the early-TNG uniforms.

Now, think about that for a moment: there's a major difference between those two uniforms and it seems like it would be a radical change to go straight from one to the other.

What prompted going from a multi-piece uniform (including the jacket) that looks militaristic and probably too fomral for its own good to one-piece spandex jumpsuits?

There must've been a change in Starfleet's outlook or philosophy around then. Or the times must have been changing. What would've been changing and what would the uniforms be reflecting as a result?
They wanted to make up for lost time with something dramatic?

Not sure. Maybe somebody lost a bet.
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Old December 6 2009, 04:10 PM   #11
Lord Garth
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
^^^
Peacetime isn't that exciting, perhaps?
I was thinking about this before I even logged on, and if I were writing stories in that timeframe, I'd put the emphasis on the fact that it's peacetime and then go in a different angle from the late-24th Century (well, mostly just the 2370s). Show what else could happen or what type of progress could be made without the hindrance of interstellar conflict.
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Old December 6 2009, 06:59 PM   #12
Merry Christmas
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
What prompted going from a multi-piece uniform (including the jacket) that looks militaristic and probably too fomral for its own good to one-piece spandex jumpsuits?
The jumpsuit is not new with TNG, they were in TMP for everyone, in TWOK for the junior cadets and the regular crew. One possibility is that the "militaristic" costume was a class A or a dress uniform. Who did we see them on, Kirk (admiral), Spock (senor instructor) and Saavik (senor cadet), the crew running around the Enterprise wore jumpsuits. In TSFS the captain of the Grissum wore his class A uniform on duty. The one-piece jumpsuits at the begining of TNG were nothing new, just a redesign. And the "militaristic" jacket didn't quite disappear, if you look at Picard's formal dress uniform (first season ?), the one with no pants, it sort of the same thing.



From Memory Alpha:
The plan was to use the modified uniforms (from ST:TMP) for the junior cadets and enlisted crew, while enough money could be found to design an entirely new wardrobe for the senior officers.
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Old December 6 2009, 08:10 PM   #13
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

There were changes in the TWOK style uniform before TNG.

You see the toned down TWOK styles ones on the holo of Jack sent to Wes and the crew of the ENT-C.
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Old December 6 2009, 08:37 PM   #14
Longinus
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

NIUPonyBoy wrote: View Post
There were changes in the TWOK style uniform before TNG.

You see the toned down TWOK styles ones on the holo of Jack sent to Wes and the crew of the ENT-C.
If you mean they wore them without shirts and belts, then yes.
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Old December 6 2009, 10:26 PM   #15
C.E. Evans
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Re: The uniform change around 2350

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
^^^
Peacetime isn't that exciting, perhaps?
I was thinking about this before I even logged on, and if I were writing stories in that timeframe, I'd put the emphasis on the fact that it's peacetime and then go in a different angle from the late-24th Century (well, mostly just the 2370s). Show what else could happen or what type of progress could be made without the hindrance of interstellar conflict.
It could have been a period of rapid expansion in both geographical size and membership numbers for the Federation. The Enterprise-B may have had her part in all of that, IMO, with first contacts and interstellar diplomacy being her primary mission during that time (perhaps prompting Starfleet to make modifications to the original TWOK uniforms to make them look less "militaristic?").

Elsewhere in the Galaxy, the Klingon-Romulan alliance may have been coming to an ugly end, with the Federation being a neutral observer (for now anyway)...
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