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Old December 2 2009, 02:49 AM   #1
Holder
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species strength question

Don't blow me up, I am sure this has been discussed before on here, I searched for threads but could not locate them.

I was having a friendly debate with regards to the strength of vulcans. I thought I remembered an episode of DS9 where it was said that Vulcans and Klingons were about the same with regards to strength. Both being 8 times stronger than humans. In my debate the other party stated that Vulcans were only 3 times stronger than humans, honestly that makes more sense as 8 times seems kind of extreme. I am not above admitting that I was wrong but I was wondering if anyone here had any imput or if they could remember anything more conclusive.
I am also aware that their strength was relative to what the story called for, but I think you guys get the jist of my question.
The DS9 episode I referrenced above was "Take me out to the Holosuite" BTW.
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Old December 2 2009, 05:06 AM   #2
Joby
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Re: species strength question

If Klingons are so strong, then why do we see so many humans holding their own or even winning a typical fist fight with them?
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Old December 2 2009, 05:17 AM   #3
Daneel
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Re: species strength question

As I said in the thread on the same issue in the DS9 forum, it is stated in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" that Vulcans are generally about 3 times stronger than humans, IIRC.

Don't know about Klingons.
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Old December 2 2009, 06:09 AM   #4
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Re: species strength question

Daneel wrote: View Post
As I said in the thread on the same issue in the DS9 forum, it is stated in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" that Vulcans are generally about 3 times stronger than humans, IIRC.

Don't know about Klingons.

Thank You for your response. No idea where I got 8 from, that would make them pretty much supermen lol. Thanks again.
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Old December 2 2009, 09:43 AM   #5
Myasishchev
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Re: species strength question

Vulcans are often portrayed as significantly stronger than humans (and Klingons)--from Amok Time to Mirror, Mirror to The Search For Spock to Take Me Out to the Holosuite to Star Trek 11, they tend to be able to kick ass. That said, they kind of have the "strength of plot" so if the plot demands they get taken down, it happens (like in that one Enterprise episode where Archer--of all people--actually beats up a Vulcan).

You know, I bitch a lot about the problems with ST11 (not as much as some, obviously, but a fair bit), but they were really consistent with Vulcans (and Romulans) having significantly greater than average strength. I mean, Kirk, who is supposed to be scrappy, gets the shit kicked out of three times by Vulcans/Romulans, who barely break a sweat. Those were great parts.

On the other hand, it's hard to square massive strength with a copper-based blood pigment with 1/4 the carrying capacity of hemoglobin.

I'm not convinced Klingons, pound for pound, are even as strong as humans. They certainly aren't portrayed as any stronger than any species I can think of, and humans, Bajorans, Cardassians, and Trill all seem to be able to easily best them in physical combat, even if they're much smaller and hormonally limited. It would be ironic and hilarious for the warrior culture to discover, once they ventured out into space, that, physically, they're the wusses of the Alpha Quadrant.
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Old December 2 2009, 10:58 AM   #6
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Re: species strength question

I was watching the episode "Twilight" (not the movie LOL but the enterprise ep) and the people who worked on the show commented on a scene where T'Pol struggled but couldn't lift up some metal. They were thinkijng that Vulcan females are as strong (actually as weak as human females) Interesting.

It seems Andorian woman are stronger than human men (that episode where Talas seemed relaxed while beating up a human military soldier
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Old December 2 2009, 12:43 PM   #7
Joby
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Re: species strength question

Spock could have easily accidenlty or intently, crushed Kirk's throat and strangled him to death in that scene in Trek XI. I mean they are supposed to be 3 times stronger then humans and he seems like he was squeezing Kirk's throat pretty hard.
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Old December 2 2009, 12:47 PM   #8
Deranged Nasat
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Re: species strength question

Of course, how much of Vulcan strength is inherent in their biology and how much is a result of living in a high-gravity environment? If a Vulcan grew up on Earth or another world with lower gravity, would they still be as strong?
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Old December 2 2009, 12:55 PM   #9
Longinus
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Re: species strength question

Vulcans are consistently shown to be tremendously strong, except in ST:Enterprise, where T'pol is seems to be your typical powerless Hollywood female, and can easily be overpowered by anyone with balls. Klingons seem to be only slightly stronger than humans, if stronger at all. Interestingly, even though Romulans are generally shown as quite capable, I don't remember them ever depicted with kind of super-strength than Vulcans seem to posses. Maybe Rumulus has much lower gravity than 2G of Vulcan, and consequently Romulans do not develop muscles to match their full genetic potential.
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Old December 2 2009, 01:02 PM   #10
Joby
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Re: species strength question

^There was that one Romulan in Trek XI that lifted Kirk up from one the Narada's catwalks with one arm.
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Old December 2 2009, 01:08 PM   #11
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Re: species strength question

Joby wrote: View Post
^There was that one Romulan in Trek XI that lifted Kirk up from the catwalk with one arm.
Yeah but... considering the amount of deviation from canon that film had, I would take anything from it with grain of salt when it comes to assessing the reality of the prime universe. Not that I have anything against Romulans being as strong as Vulcans per se, I just do not remember them being depicted as such before, not that I'd remember them depicted as particularly weak either.
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Old December 2 2009, 01:21 PM   #12
Joby
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Re: species strength question

^..but remember that Romulan was from the prime universe....
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Old December 2 2009, 01:31 PM   #13
Alidar Jarok
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Re: species strength question

I would be wary of using one person as an example of a species (it could be just one really strong Romulan). On the other hand, there's nothing really to suggest Romulans aren't stronger, since they don't tend to like to get their hands dirty and generally don't get into physical combat. I guess the same thing is with T'Pol, although, since no other Vulcan female was shown to be strong, maybe it's possible that the males are only the ones stronger.

No idea about Klingons.
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Old December 2 2009, 01:34 PM   #14
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Re: species strength question

Joby wrote: View Post
^..but remember that Romulan was from the prime universe....
Ah, that's not the point. I mean the whole movie's attitude to canon was fast and loose, beyond the alteration of the time line. But that is entirely different discussion, and one I'm sure has been covered with sufficient fervour elsewhere on these forums ten times over.

As I said, I really do not have particular problem with superstrong Romulans, it just wasn't the impression I got from the Trek before XI. Can anyone recall any incidents (apart XI) where a Romulan would 1) demonstrate great strength 2) would demonstrate lack of such strength (i.e. fail to lift something, be overpowered by a human etc.) 3) be in a situation where strength would be useful, but not utilise it? Not that it would matter much, as both 2 and 3 happened to T'pol regularly, and she was a Vulcan.
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Old December 2 2009, 01:39 PM   #15
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Re: species strength question

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I guess the same thing is with T'Pol, although, since no other Vulcan female was shown to be strong, maybe it's possible that the males are only the ones stronger.
I'd really hate that. It seems sexist and stupid. Sure Spock can be superstrong, but female Vulcans has to be feeble so Archer can be manly and heroic and come to the rescue. And it doesn't even make sense, Vulcans are so strong because they are ovelved on a planet with high gravity, surely that has to affect both sexes equally?
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