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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old December 15 2009, 02:31 AM   #166
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

JaxMas wrote: View Post
Am wondering do you plan to watch all of Doctor Who 2005-2009 ? or just some of it because so far you seem to dislike the show heavily though don't get me wrong, I find all of this self torture as funny as the next guy
I don't think it's self torture, really. The guy doesn't like nuWho but at least he's making a concentrated effort to discover why that's the case. In some ways, it's a lot like Bao Phi at the Star Tribune of Minneapolis, who recently wrote why he's a loyal-but-critical fan of LOST.
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Old December 15 2009, 05:30 AM   #167
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

JaxMas wrote: View Post
Am wondering do you plan to watch all of Doctor Who 2005-2009 ? or just some of it because so far you seem to dislike the show heavily though don't get me wrong, I find all of this self torture as funny as the next guy
I plan to watch it all. Doing this is a handy substitute for real life

But looking over the list of episodes, I think Series 1 seems uniquely poor. Whereas looking at Series 2, there should be quite a lot there to enjoy.
Starkers wrote: View Post
^^ One point re Rose. Now I'm not the biggest fan of the 'isn't she the most wonderful companion ever' thing, nor that the Doctor adores her so much...but...the one and only reason I think it works is this; the doctor met her immediately after the Timewar, immediately after the destruction of his race, at a time when he was vulnerable, wrakced with survivor guilt, devoid of hope...anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I can probably forgive him obsessing over the first bit of skirt he comes across
Yeah, I mean that's the rationalisation we have to employ, but even so, I think it's a disservice to the character on the part of the writers (or, so I gather, Rusty and Gardner specifically).
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
I don't think it's self torture, really. The guy doesn't like nuWho but at least he's making a concentrated effort to discover why that's the case. In some ways, it's a lot like Bao Phi at the Star Tribune of Minneapolis, who recently wrote why he's a loyal-but-critical fan of LOST.
Yup, that kind of thing.
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Old December 15 2009, 02:06 PM   #168
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

Here are excerpts from issue 413 of the UK's Doctor Who Magazine, where nearly 7000 people voted for their favourite DW story of all time, and here are the results:

(links removed)

Last edited by Neroon; December 16 2009 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Removed links to copyrighted material
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Old December 15 2009, 02:17 PM   #169
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

cont...

(links removed)

Of course Moffat and Cornell come out better than Davies, I don't agree with all of the results ("Love & Monsters" is vastly underrated, as is "The Runaway Bride"), but RTD has written episodes that are perceived to be as good as many of the older classic DW serials from the 60s, 70s & 80s.

Last edited by Neroon; December 16 2009 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Removed links to copyrighted material
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Old December 15 2009, 03:19 PM   #170
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

I suspect that's mainly due to the fact that they are fresh in people's minds.

Take that same poll again in 10 years and see what happens.
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Old December 15 2009, 06:34 PM   #171
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

That is a factor, but either way online fandom heckling Davies' stewardship of Doctor Who is pretty much in the minority.
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Old December 15 2009, 07:54 PM   #172
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

TedShatner10 wrote: View Post
Of course Moffat and Cornell come out better than Davies, I don't agree with all of the results ("Love & Monsters" is vastly underrated, as is "The Runaway Bride"), but RTD has written episodes that are perceived to be as good as many of the older classic DW serials from the 60s, 70s & 80s.
He's also the executive producer and head writer, so he no doubt had input into those scripts, as well as in the general tone of the series and creating the principle characters.

If he only wrote one story a year, they would probably be of a more consistent higher quality. Moffat is certain to write some lemons during his time in charge, it's just how TV works.

And thanks for the scans Ted, I'd not seen that before.
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Old December 15 2009, 08:50 PM   #173
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

^This is why I secretly hoped Moffat might persude RTD to do one ep a year, I think that episode might be something special.
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Old December 15 2009, 09:35 PM   #174
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

If he can come up with more like Midnight, Turn Left and Bad Wolf, I'm all for it.
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Old December 15 2009, 11:07 PM   #175
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

Another thing that soured Bad Wolf for me was that the Bad Wolf we'd been building up to all season turned out to be future echoes from God-Rose. Talk about a let-down!

Loved Midnight though.
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Old December 16 2009, 08:51 AM   #176
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

Tomalak wrote: View Post
If he can come up with more like Midnight, Turn Left and Bad Wolf, I'm all for it.
I agree. I watched Midnight again last night. Classic drama using words and actors. Just wonderful stuff, I felt.
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Old December 16 2009, 03:44 PM   #177
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

TedShatner10 wrote: View Post
Here are excerpts from issue 413 of the UK's Doctor Who Magazine, where nearly 7000 people voted for their favourite DW story of all time, and here are the results:

(links removed)
Refer to and quote from the article if you like. However, it's not kosher to scan the material in and post those scans when said material is copyrighted.
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Old December 17 2009, 07:51 AM   #178
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

Captain Pike wrote: View Post
Another thing that soured Bad Wolf for me was that the Bad Wolf we'd been building up to all season turned out to be future echoes from God-Rose. Talk about a let-down!
Deus ex machina. I remember when watching it the first time that my head seemed magnetically attracted to my hands.
WillsBauble wrote: View Post
Tomalak wrote: View Post
If he can come up with more like Midnight, Turn Left and Bad Wolf, I'm all for it.
I agree. I watched Midnight again last night. Classic drama using words and actors. Just wonderful stuff, I felt.
I remember not being all that impressed with Midnight when it was first shown, but I don't really remember much of it at all, so maybe that's one I'll especially look out for when I get to it. I remember he left Catherine Tate behind that episode, so there's a reason to like it at least.



Father's Day (***)

So, we find out that Rose's dad is dead. Which is a traumatic thing for any child. She wants to go back and see him, and the Doctor obliges because he fancies her. To begin with, they go back and see Jackie and Pete's wedding. You think you'd notice two strangers at your wedding, but...I dunno, psychic paper or something.

I'd also note that the Tardis is deciding to work perfectly this episode. Anyway, Rose then says she wants to go back and be with her Dad when he dies. Being 900 years old and portrayed as the wisest being in the entire universe, the Doctor doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with this idea. Or maybe he's not thinking straight because he fancies Rose.

So they stand there and watch Pete get run over. Great idea. Only, after it happens, Rose can't bring herself to run out to him, so they have to do it again. We get a bit of fun with there being two sets of the Doctor and Rose, but then the first set disappears, because that's how time travel works this week. Anyway, Rose runs out and saves her Dad from getting run over.

All three of them end up back at Pete's flat, but it seems during all that time going there, the Doctor hasn't actually bothered saying anything. Now that the camera's on them though, it seems he's quite angry with Rose. He talks about how he's thought about going back and saving those he lost in the Time War. Which is a little disappointing; I'd have hoped a Time War would have been more complicated than that. But that aside, he should be angry with himself. I mean, what did he expect she'd do if he took her to see where her father dies? Also, when Rose points out that the Doctor changes history all the time, the best explanation for that plot hole we get is that he knows what he's doing. A bit weak, that.

Anyway, the Doctor starts to leave, and Rose, being an idiot, insults him as he's walking away. Good thing he fancies her, or there's a danger he might actually leave her stranded in the past.

And people start dying. By an unseen menace!

Now there are quite a lot of ideas as to how the grandfather paradox is solved. Would you disappear? Would the many worlds interpretation come into play? Well, this isn't quite the same situtation, but this episode has its own way of dealing with time anomalies nonetheless.

Back at the episode, we get a fun scene between Rose and Pete, and the Doctor discovers that the Tardis has become an empty box. Oops.

Off to the wedding then, and there's all sorts of weirdness on the go. Phones keep playing a weird message, the car that would have killed Pete keep disappearing and reappearing (weirdly), the soundtrack is playing weird music...clearly something's not right.

I also think the arguing between Jackie and Pete and its effect on Rose works. Things aren't always how...you, err, think I suppose...is the message. Yeah. Works for me anyway. And "I'm not listening, it's the duffle coats all over again" made me smile. The way people have these strange things that happen between them and...yes. Melodrama to some, but I buy into it.

Anyway, the Reapers appear, and they're quite cool looking. I've been playing Metroid Prime recently, and they remind me of Ridley. Anyway, they kill people. That'll sort time out. So, everyone gets in the church. Big safe church. Apparently "The older something is, the stronger it is". Of course, all the atoms and whatnot are the same age, but...what do I know.

And it turns out the message on the phones was the very first call by Alexander Graham Bell. I like that. And Pete's cottened on who Rose is, though I'm not sure how believable that is. After all, it's quite a leap to think that because you've met a stranger with the same name as your baby, that your daughter's come from the future and saved you from getting run over.

And there's another nice scene, this time between the Doctor and the marrying couple. It's not very important to the episode, but it's nice. Then we get little Mickey, which I must admit, also made me smile. And the Doctor talking to baby Rose made me smile. A lot here is working for me. But then Rose nearly touches her younger self, which you're not meant to do. Well, the Brigadier once got away with it, but we all liked him.

Anyway, the Tardis key is glowing, so now we have the gibberish necessary to resolve the situation. Or so we hope. Meanwhile, Rose lies a bit, and the Tardis seems to grow back. Or something.

Then Rose holds herself (doesn't actually touch her baby self though, but...), a Reaper gets in, the Doctor gets eaten, the Reaper flies into the Tardis, and the world is doomed. So we get a tearful goodbye when Pete realises he has to go and get run over, he dies, Rose cries over him, everything's resolved. That he died in the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't seem to make a difference, but...whatever.

I don't see this episode get mentioned very often here, and when it is, it's not in a positive light. But I quite like it. Yeah, it's flawed: the Doctor shouldn't have taken Rose to watch her Dad die, the resolution and all the sci-fi elements don't necessarily make all that much sense, and so on. But this episode's about the characters. Not being a big fan of any of the characters, it shouldn't work for me on that level, but it does.

Whereas Rose (the episode) seemed to say "here's a character with a pointless life like you the viewer, but she can go off with the Doctor and get some meaning. Be sure to tune in and watch every week", this instead says "Normal people have normal lives, but there's a beauty and diginity in that". Maybe that's just me reading too much into it, but I get that vibe.

What's more, on a screwdriver note, I think we only see it once, and it doesn't seem to be doing anything. Fantastic.
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Last edited by Red-Bonesed Reindeer; December 17 2009 at 03:36 PM.
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Old December 17 2009, 08:05 AM   #179
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

Red-Bonesed Reindeer wrote: View Post
I remember he left Catherine Tate behind that episode, so there's a reason to like it at least.


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Old December 17 2009, 09:29 AM   #180
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Re: A Hater Revisits nuWho

Yeah Donna is easily my fav companion of the new series. Like many, when I heard Tate was cast I wasn't very optimistic but she ended up great. No stupid love interest like Rose, and not as wooden as Martha.
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