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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 19 2009, 02:28 AM   #1
Photon
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What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

Overall, I liked it. I thought at the beginning the Ent's ppl (writers) were condescending toward DS9 (sucky replicator food, crappy computers, boring Bajoran aqueduct mess)but it picked up.

I liked the interplay between Data and Bashir, especially how he gets to talk to Data about stuff never talked about from the Ent's crew.

Worf choking the trader on the look down on the promenade and just Picard and Crushah milling about in the corridors of DS9
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Old November 19 2009, 04:04 AM   #2
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

I thought it was a good first part, very nice and true interaction between the two crews (specifically Bashir and Data). Surprising that a good character piece came from Braga when he was mostly known for high-concept plots.

Part two, not so much. I didn't like the message that Worf disrupting the peace the Klingons and Romulans found for themselves was a GOOD thing.
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Old November 19 2009, 05:51 AM   #3
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

Anwar wrote: View Post
I thought it was a good first part, very nice and true interaction between the two crews (specifically Bashir and Data). Surprising that a good character piece came from Braga when he was mostly known for high-concept plots.

Part two, not so much. I didn't like the message that Worf disrupting the peace the Klingons and Romulans found for themselves was a GOOD thing.
I agree with Anwar here.

I really loved the first part (this IS the one where Data dreams, right?) but part 2 was quite the letdown. Frankly, I think we should've put the Data story and made that its own episode and shoved the Worf story into another episode. And the episode tries so hard to cram down your throat that Worf is in the right, but it's impossible for me to agree with that, since he goes out of his way to screw up the lives that were made that stem from an unlikely peace just because they didn't live how HE wanted them to live.
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Old November 19 2009, 12:42 PM   #4
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
I thought it was a good first part, very nice and true interaction between the two crews (specifically Bashir and Data). Surprising that a good character piece came from Braga when he was mostly known for high-concept plots.

Part two, not so much. I didn't like the message that Worf disrupting the peace the Klingons and Romulans found for themselves was a GOOD thing.
I agree with Anwar here.

I really loved the first part (this IS the one where Data dreams, right?) but part 2 was quite the letdown. Frankly, I think we should've put the Data story and made that its own episode and shoved the Worf story into another episode. And the episode tries so hard to cram down your throat that Worf is in the right, but it's impossible for me to agree with that, since he goes out of his way to screw up the lives that were made that stem from an unlikely peace just because they didn't live how HE wanted them to live.
Agree. Part Duex was a let down. I would have preferred just see the interactions and conflicts between the two crews, esp the Ent's crew who were used to the antiscepticness of the Ent.

Would like to have seen Sisko and Odo make a significant appearance
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Old November 19 2009, 08:32 PM   #5
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

I think it was a great idea, to acknowledge DS9. Also, it makes sense that Enterprise would visit this strategically important station on occasion.

I think the whole Worf story was kind of dumb, how it ended up.

Overall, a good episode.
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Old November 21 2009, 01:27 PM   #6
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

I recently saw part 1 again, and while I enjoyed seeing another cast taking in the station (especially a pre-DS9 Worf), there was a lot I didn't like in the execution.

For one, the activities of the TNG crew. They come all that way to visit this exotic deep space station, and Worf and Geordi eat Italian pasta in the Replimat?!? No visit to Quarks for some alien cuisine, or at least to the Klingon restaurant? And again, Beverly specifically wants to visit Quark's holosuites to experience a relaxation program? She couldn't visit Bajor and relax? Or use their own holodeck?

Lastly Bashir's visit to the Enterprise is convoluted at best and reeks of stunt casting. He finds some alien device from the Gamma Quadrant. He has no idea what it is, brings it aboard the Enterprise without announcing himself or checking with security, and makes unauthorized use of their equipment to analyze it. Shouldn't Dax or O'Brien be doing this? Well sure, but apparently neither actor was available, so they made it a medical device to work Bashir into the story.

In the end it made Enterprise's first crossover to DS9 seem as contrived as Q's. Sad.

Still - fun to see the station I guess.
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Old November 21 2009, 07:06 PM   #7
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

Had to fastforward thru part II, very boring.
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Old November 21 2009, 08:37 PM   #8
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

doctorfoto wrote: View Post
I recently saw part 1 again, and while I enjoyed seeing another cast taking in the station (especially a pre-DS9 Worf), there was a lot I didn't like in the execution.

For one, the activities of the TNG crew. They come all that way to visit this exotic deep space station, and Worf and Geordi eat Italian pasta in the Replimat?!? No visit to Quarks for some alien cuisine, or at least to the Klingon restaurant? And again, Beverly specifically wants to visit Quark's holosuites to experience a relaxation program? She couldn't visit Bajor and relax? Or use their own holodeck?

Lastly Bashir's visit to the Enterprise is convoluted at best and reeks of stunt casting. He finds some alien device from the Gamma Quadrant. He has no idea what it is, brings it aboard the Enterprise without announcing himself or checking with security, and makes unauthorized use of their equipment to analyze it. Shouldn't Dax or O'Brien be doing this? Well sure, but apparently neither actor was available, so they made it a medical device to work Bashir into the story.

In the end it made Enterprise's first crossover to DS9 seem as contrived as Q's. Sad.

Still - fun to see the station I guess.
I'm pretty sure Bashir was supposed to be Dax, but she was busying acting in that 'classic' episode Move Along Home.
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Old November 23 2009, 06:53 AM   #9
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

mattyhugh wrote: View Post
doctorfoto wrote: View Post
I recently saw part 1 again, and while I enjoyed seeing another cast taking in the station (especially a pre-DS9 Worf), there was a lot I didn't like in the execution.

For one, the activities of the TNG crew. They come all that way to visit this exotic deep space station, and Worf and Geordi eat Italian pasta in the Replimat?!? No visit to Quarks for some alien cuisine, or at least to the Klingon restaurant? And again, Beverly specifically wants to visit Quark's holosuites to experience a relaxation program? She couldn't visit Bajor and relax? Or use their own holodeck?

Lastly Bashir's visit to the Enterprise is convoluted at best and reeks of stunt casting. He finds some alien device from the Gamma Quadrant. He has no idea what it is, brings it aboard the Enterprise without announcing himself or checking with security, and makes unauthorized use of their equipment to analyze it. Shouldn't Dax or O'Brien be doing this? Well sure, but apparently neither actor was available, so they made it a medical device to work Bashir into the story.

In the end it made Enterprise's first crossover to DS9 seem as contrived as Q's. Sad.

Still - fun to see the station I guess.
I'm pretty sure Bashir was supposed to be Dax, but she was busying acting in that 'classic' episode Move Along Home.
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Old November 24 2009, 05:19 AM   #10
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
mattyhugh wrote: View Post
doctorfoto wrote: View Post
I recently saw part 1 again, and while I enjoyed seeing another cast taking in the station (especially a pre-DS9 Worf), there was a lot I didn't like in the execution.

For one, the activities of the TNG crew. They come all that way to visit this exotic deep space station, and Worf and Geordi eat Italian pasta in the Replimat?!? No visit to Quarks for some alien cuisine, or at least to the Klingon restaurant? And again, Beverly specifically wants to visit Quark's holosuites to experience a relaxation program? She couldn't visit Bajor and relax? Or use their own holodeck?

Lastly Bashir's visit to the Enterprise is convoluted at best and reeks of stunt casting. He finds some alien device from the Gamma Quadrant. He has no idea what it is, brings it aboard the Enterprise without announcing himself or checking with security, and makes unauthorized use of their equipment to analyze it. Shouldn't Dax or O'Brien be doing this? Well sure, but apparently neither actor was available, so they made it a medical device to work Bashir into the story.

In the end it made Enterprise's first crossover to DS9 seem as contrived as Q's. Sad.

Still - fun to see the station I guess.
I'm pretty sure Bashir was supposed to be Dax, but she was busying acting in that 'classic' episode Move Along Home.
"Alamarain, count to four, Alamarain, then three more..."
Is that bad that as I read that I started singing it out loud?
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Old November 24 2009, 11:25 AM   #11
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

mattyhugh wrote: View Post
Is that bad that as I read that I started singing it out loud?
Don't feel too bad. I sang it out as I typed it.
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Old November 24 2009, 03:42 PM   #12
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

I actually found part II far more interesting, with a look at an unusual Klingons/Romulan community and Klingons who live in a different way. And it's always good to see Worf upset because something doesn't fit his narrow-minded views. But I agree that they got it wrong - not by having Worf screw it up - it's what you'd expect from him - but by making it seem at the end that all the young Klingons were willing and eager to follow him, which made no sense. What, they all simply abandoned their parents, the community the were born in and grew up in and spent their entire lives in, and only the way of life they knew, just because some stranger who happened to have similar DNA to theirs told them stories about honor and fighting and tradition and what not? If they had just a few of them follow him, and a lot more stay where they are, it would've been more convincing. But they made it seem as if everyone went with Worf, except for the one who was half-Romulan and knew she wouldn't be accepted in Klingon society. And that just felt both very wrong, and very unbelievable.
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Old November 24 2009, 08:27 PM   #13
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
I actually found part II far more interesting, with a look at an unusual Klingons/Romulan community and Klingons who live in a different way. And it's always good to see Worf upset because something doesn't fit his narrow-minded views. But I agree that they got it wrong - not by having Worf screw it up - it's what you'd expect from him - but by making it seem at the end that all the young Klingons were willing and eager to follow him, which made no sense. What, they all simply abandoned their parents, the community the were born in and grew up in and spent their entire lives in, and only the way of life they knew, just because some stranger who happened to have similar DNA to theirs told them stories about honor and fighting and tradition and what not? If they had just a few of them follow him, and a lot more stay where they are, it would've been more convincing. But they made it seem as if everyone went with Worf, except for the one who was half-Romulan and knew she wouldn't be accepted in Klingon society. And that just felt both very wrong, and very unbelievable.
I dunno. Never underestimate the adventurous spirit of youth -especially if you're a Klingon . If Worf piqued their curiosity enough, then it doesn't strike me as much of a stretch for them to want to discover, explore, and learn more about their heritage, something their parents were quite content to leave behind because, hey, they already know about all that stuff. Who knows -after their curiosity has been sated, maybe some of them decided to return anyway.
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Old November 24 2009, 08:36 PM   #14
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

doctorfoto wrote: View Post
For one, the activities of the TNG crew. They come all that way to visit this exotic deep space station, and Worf and Geordi eat Italian pasta in the Replimat?!? No visit to Quarks for some alien cuisine, or at least to the Klingon restaurant? And again, Beverly specifically wants to visit Quark's holosuites to experience a relaxation program? She couldn't visit Bajor and relax? Or use their own holodeck?
Yeah, I agree with this. The fact that the Replimat is called Replimat should have been an indication that it's just replicated food. I'm sure the Enterprise replicators are a helluva lot better that whatever DS9 had to offer, especially so soon after Starfleet took it over. I'm sure Worf and Geordi could've found a much better place to eat.

Overall the episode was just alright. I did enjoy the Data storyline more than the Worf storyline, so I usually don't even watch Part 2.

I must admit, though, I love seeing the different casts intermingle. Even if there isn't much reason for the crossover, it's still cool to see.
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Old November 24 2009, 10:55 PM   #15
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Re: What's the Feeling on TNG's-Birthright?

Yeah I always figured the Replimat was the Trek equivalent of a fast food joint. Just a quick place to grab a bite with your co-workers while you're on break. I'm guessing you would rarely take a date to the Replimat. I recall people would sometimes head there if Quark's was full.

I think if DS9 had been made as a feature film, Quark's would have been far more elaborate. Something closer to the club in SW: Episode II or Serenity or even the bar in ST III. You would see video screens of gaming events from all over the quadrant and stuff like that. As it was they did pretty well with what they had. I especially enjoyed when they featured live music such as in Emissary and Fascination. I think it could easily be said that Quark's was the coolest hangout in the history of Trek.
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