RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,814
Posts: 5,326,393
Members: 24,550
Currently online: 698
Newest member: junkdata

TrekToday headlines

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4

Star Trek Pop-Ups Book Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 18 2009, 01:07 PM   #1
Evil Ezri
Lieutenant
 
Location: East Tennessee
DS9 Mirror Universe

Why during all the mirror universe episodes it just felt like the primary characters of DS9 was just killing each other off just for drama. When Ezri Dax had to deal with the last mirror universe episode, the primary characters were almost killed off with only Kira being the last primary character from DS9. Even then it was not clear that the mirror Ezri and the mirror Kira would be alive in the end, as they were pointing weapons at each other at point blank range that would have killed both characters.

Was it really necessary that the characters of DS9 were killing off their mirror universe characters to a point that the mirror universe was just acts of cheap murder?
Evil Ezri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 01:33 PM   #2
Jono
Rear Admiral
 
Jono's Avatar
 
Location: Australia
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

I can't remember where a primary universe person killed their mirror counterpart. In fact the MU killings were pretty low. I can only think of Odo who was killed by Kira or Bashir.

Quark, Rom, Nog, Ben and Jennifer Sisko, Jadzia were all killed by people from the mirror universe.
Jono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 02:26 PM   #3
Evil Ezri
Lieutenant
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Jono wrote: View Post
I can't remember where a primary universe person killed their mirror counterpart. In fact the MU killings were pretty low. I can only think of Odo who was killed by Kira or Bashir.

Quark, Rom, Nog, Ben and Jennifer Sisko, Jadzia were all killed by people from the mirror universe.
And nobody in the primary universe killed their counterpart in the mirror universe or the other way around. Only Bashir from the primary universe killed the mirror Odo.

Yes, I do feel that the killings were lame. The more killings in the mirror universe just made going back to the mirror universe with a episode much weaker.
Evil Ezri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 02:31 PM   #4
JustKate
Rear Admiral
 
JustKate's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana, USA
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

^ Yes, and this is one reason why the earlier mirror universe episodes were so much stronger than the later ones.

However, I don't think the problem was that the writers killed off too many people. Some, and maybe even most, of those deaths made for great television. MU Odo's and MU Rom's deaths, in particular, were very effective in conveying a real sense of what a violent, chaotic place that universe was.

The error was in going back to the MU too often, IMO. The early mirror universe episodes were great, but there were just a few too many of them, I think.
JustKate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 02:50 PM   #5
Evil Ezri
Lieutenant
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Indeed! Think they had a mirror universe episode every single season, but I am unsure if there was a mirror universe for the first season. Have mixed feeling about the last and final mirror universe episode that was designed to show Ezri Dax as a angry, tuff, and bisexual female. Sure, without that episode the character of Ezri Dax would be less important.

Still I think the mirror universe would have been more important if there were only like four episodes. TOS only had a single episode with the mirror universe and that is talked about since the 1960’s with all the mirror universe episodes of DS9 that just makes it what really happened when and how.
Evil Ezri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 03:14 PM   #6
Jono
Rear Admiral
 
Jono's Avatar
 
Location: Australia
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Evil Ezri wrote: View Post
Indeed! Think they had a mirror universe episode every single season, but I am unsure if there was a mirror universe for the first season.
There were no MU eps in season 1 and 5.

Have mixed feeling about the last and final mirror universe episode that was designed to show Ezri Dax as a angry, tuff, and bisexual female. Sure, without that episode the character of Ezri Dax would be less important.
In what why would it make Ezri less important if that episode did not exist? I won't mind if she didn't appear, the less Ezri the better in my opinion.

Still I think the mirror universe would have been more important if there were only like four episodes.
Five is like four episodes...just more.
Jono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 03:39 PM   #7
Evil Ezri
Lieutenant
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Jono wrote: View Post
Have mixed feeling about the last and final mirror universe episode that was designed to show Ezri Dax as a angry, tuff, and bisexual female. Sure, without that episode the character of Ezri Dax would be less important.
In what why would it make Ezri less important if that episode did not exist? I won't mind if she didn't appear, the less Ezri the better in my opinion.
With the mirror universe Ezri only being a single episode it did in my judgment doubled her development as a character. When someone does use images of Ezri Dax, a great deal of the time it is images of her from the mirror universe. With the other primary characters, images of them as their mirror universe character are very limited.
Evil Ezri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 03:49 PM   #8
JustKate
Rear Admiral
 
JustKate's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana, USA
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

^ I agree with Jono that I really don't see how MU Ezri contributed at all to our understanding of the regular Ezri. The two aren't the same person. They just look the same. How does MU Ezri tell me anything about regular Ezri? MU Kira doesn't tell me anything about our Kira, MU Sisko doesn't tell me anything about our Sisko, and MU Garak is in fact far less interesting than our Garak.

That's how it seems to me, anyway. Could you explain a little more about what you mean, Evil Ezri?
JustKate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 04:10 PM   #9
Evil Ezri
Lieutenant
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Let us look at the primary Ezri Dax, and look at her in character with her persona. Someone that starts out unsure about her place in society. She becomes stronger as a character, with the battle she had to do during the war and the fight with the Vulcan Starfleet officer with the TR-117. Still, in her natural state at rest she is very passive as a character.

With the mirror character of Ezri she is angry, possible a lesbian or bisexual that is much different than the character of Ezri Dax. She has a great deal of issues that makes her a dark mystery that a number of people are so able to develop on their own.

If you look at their characters, you can see a real difference with their characters from primary character to the mirror character, just as you can see the clear difference with Kira herself and more developed. With the male characters, there is a difference but they are not really much of a difference. Since we can see how they act from episode to episode their mirror characters are not really a major break from their primary characters.
Evil Ezri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 05:29 PM   #10
JustKate
Rear Admiral
 
JustKate's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana, USA
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

^So....

Are you saying that the contrast between MU Ezri and Prime Ezri helped you discern more about Prime Ezri's character? If so, huh, that's interesting. It didn't work that way for me, but I can see how it might work that way for some people. If that's what you're saying.
JustKate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 05:41 PM   #11
Evil Ezri
Lieutenant
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Try it this way, what would a meeting with the primary Ezri and the mirror Ezri would be like if they were in a runabout alone with a long voyage together would be like.
Evil Ezri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 05:58 PM   #12
OldManDax
Captain
 
Location: THE BIG APPLE (HOME OF THE YANKEES, KNICKS, GIANTS, AND OTHER GREAT TEAMS.
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

With the mirror universe, the writers went to the well too many times. They should've left after the third one, left Sisko as the hero, or at least primary protagonist (though I loved mirror Kira), and left it at that. Instead, typical of much of season 7, they forgot where their gold was, forgot that ensemble/epic does not mean all over the place, or that every character/storyline needs equal footing, and thus sabotaged much of their own stuff.

Episodes like this are one reason I found myself turning from DS9 so much in Season 7.
__________________
Obedience brings victory. Victory is life.

My ancestors were human beings, not fish and apes. Sorry if that offends you - but I rather enjoy it!
OldManDax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 06:17 PM   #13
Evil Ezri
Lieutenant
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Have to agree with you on this, with the mirror universe being used so often. DS9 was only design to run only six seasons and the war was taking too long to get a closer with a settlement at the end of season six. In fact, if it was not for Jadzia Dax leaving needing to have a replacement the war would have been ended faster and the problems of the peace could be developed. Still, I do find that wasting an episode with a mirror universe then helping to define the post war universe.

The problem with DS9 during the last season, the writers had too much storyline to be settled and nobody was really interested in having a season 8, to have it settled then or with a final season with season 9.

Think so many fans are upset with season 7, as it was the last and final season needing to come to a closure. Going on with the final mirror universe episode and needing to develop the character of Ezri Dax some may feel they were cheated. Yes, life would have been much better if there was going to be a season 8. If there was a season 8, the last and final mirror universe episode would have been accepted better and the character of Ezri Dax as well.
Evil Ezri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 08:29 PM   #14
Pemmer Harge
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Between the candle and the star
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

Deep Space Nine did some great things with sequels to its own episodes (The House of Quark and Looking for Par'Mach..., Necessary Evil and Things Past), but I'm not sure that Crossover, great episode though it was, really needed four sequels. Through the Looking Glass was almost as good, but by Shattered Mirror I began to get Mirror Universe fatigue.
__________________
"I hate purity, I hate goodness! I don't want any virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone to be corrupt to the bones." - Winston Smith
Pemmer Harge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18 2009, 09:03 PM   #15
DevilEyes
Rear Admiral
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Location: basking in the warmth of the Fire Caves
View DevilEyes's Twitter Profile
Re: DS9 Mirror Universe

JustKate wrote: View Post
^ I agree with Jono that I really don't see how MU Ezri contributed at all to our understanding of the regular Ezri. The two aren't the same person. They just look the same. How does MU Ezri tell me anything about regular Ezri? MU Kira doesn't tell me anything about our Kira, MU Sisko doesn't tell me anything about our Sisko, and MU Garak is in fact far less interesting than our Garak.

That's how it seems to me, anyway. Could you explain a little more about what you mean, Evil Ezri?
JustKate wrote: View Post
^So....

Are you saying that the contrast between MU Ezri and Prime Ezri helped you discern more about Prime Ezri's character? If so, huh, that's interesting. It didn't work that way for me, but I can see how it might work that way for some people. If that's what you're saying.
That's how it should have been. The MU characters were supposed to represent the dark side of the PU characters - and to show a What If? scenario - how these good people might have turned out completely different under different circumstances. At least that's what it looked like in "Mirror Mirror". I could imagine Spock becoming like Mirror Spock if he had been born and bred under the circumstances presented in the episode. Mirror Sulu had a crush on Mirror Uhura just like PU Sulu had a crush on PU Uhura, but he was much more aggressive and sinister. And the Terran Empire presented an interesting a fun look at the dark version of the Federation. But I didn't feel that way in DS9, especially as the episodes went on and became sillier and sillier. I didn't feel that The Intendant was plausible as what Kira could have turned out, or that MU Ezri was what Ezri could have turned out, which was my biggest problem with the MU episodes. I mean, even if we can swallow every other change in character traits, why the hell would those people have different sexual preferences than their PU counterparts?! But the writers obviously didn't give much thought to the logic of it all, they just saw MU episodes as an excuse to have everyone dress up differently, overact, and have some girl-on-girl action.
__________________
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

my Buffy/Angel rewatch
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.