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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 22 2009, 12:02 AM   #1
urbandk
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DS9 on Blu Ray

I tried searching for a thread such as this, and though I am sure this topic has already been covered, I couldn't find any such thread.

Does anyone know if or when DS9 will be remastered and released on Blu Ray?

Is such a task technically or economically feasible? I certainly would buy DS9 in high def.
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Old November 22 2009, 01:23 AM   #2
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

urbandk wrote: View Post
I tried searching for a thread such as this, and though I am sure this topic has already been covered, I couldn't find any such thread.

Does anyone know if or when DS9 will be remastered and released on Blu Ray?

Is such a task technically or economically feasible? I certainly would buy DS9 in high def.

I would love to have DS9 on BlueRay. Just not sure it would come out in the full screen of a tv.
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Old November 22 2009, 03:43 AM   #3
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

It is very unlikely that TNG, DS9, or VOY will ever be remastered for release on Blu-Ray. If I recall correctly it has something to do with the film they were recorded on that will make it very grainy on a Blu-Ray player; plus it is very expensive to redo all of the visual effects to support the new format.
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Old November 22 2009, 03:54 AM   #4
Klaitu
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

nx1701g wrote: View Post
It is very unlikely that TNG, DS9, or VOY will ever be remastered for release on Blu-Ray. If I recall correctly it has something to do with the film they were recorded on that will make it very grainy on a Blu-Ray player; plus it is very expensive to redo all of the visual effects to support the new format.
I disagree. The quality of film is not a problem, as even 8mm film can be scanned at high resolution and look great.

The trouble here is how the effects were done. If they were composited on video tape like TNG was, they'll have to redo them. It's hard to believe that later DS9 and especially Voyager would stick with the archaic video tape composition method, especially with CGI coming into play.

Either way, the fanbase for these shows is off the charts. Star Trek is an enormous cash cow for CBS, they just need to realize it.
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Old November 22 2009, 05:57 AM   #5
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

I found an informative post on another forum.
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Old November 22 2009, 06:23 PM   #6
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

^ Nice find. That was a very informative post, indeed.

I'd like to see the DS9 kept up-to-date with the current media format, but I'm not in a huge hurry. I still haven't bought the entire series on DVD and I still haven't bought a Blu Ray player.
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Old November 23 2009, 05:41 PM   #7
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

^^ Very interesting article. If the "rumour" is true, and conversion is currently taking place, that would be nice. If not, yet ST continues to have a fanbase to support it, I wouldn't be surprised that technology will improve in a short time span such that a transfer will be even easier to accomplish and make worthwhile business sense.
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Old November 24 2009, 02:25 AM   #8
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

Klaitu wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post
It is very unlikely that TNG, DS9, or VOY will ever be remastered for release on Blu-Ray. If I recall correctly it has something to do with the film they were recorded on that will make it very grainy on a Blu-Ray player; plus it is very expensive to redo all of the visual effects to support the new format.
I disagree. The quality of film is not a problem, as even 8mm film can be scanned at high resolution and look great.

The trouble here is how the effects were done. If they were composited on video tape like TNG was, they'll have to redo them. It's hard to believe that later DS9 and especially Voyager would stick with the archaic video tape composition method, especially with CGI coming into play.

Either way, the fanbase for these shows is off the charts. Star Trek is an enormous cash cow for CBS, they just need to realize it.
I can't see redoing effects shots in CGI being too terribly hard, most likely it would just be costly. They have to have a lot of CGI stuff on file so making new shots shouldn't be too hard right? DS9 in HD would be awesome, the space battles could have some more variety perhaps. Of course, it's just wishful thinking.

That post that was linked to was an interesting read. B5 would be awesome to have in HD as well but the costs of redoing all of those effects would probably not make it worth it.
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Old November 24 2009, 06:42 PM   #9
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

B5 was still using old Lightwave and Video Toaster for the effects, state of the art in the EARLY 90s...

DS9 might have an easier go in later seasons as that's when they started using more CGI- models for their space battles and the like, so maybe it won't take too terribly much. As long as they do a high rez scan of the old film, it shouldn't take that long really, and if they need to redo effects, I'm sure Digital Domain or whoever their CGI effects house at the time was still has copies of the models and such. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the early Season 1-4 space battles redone in CGI, even though YES the models still look great, but even if they could do a little "magic" and make the battles more exciting.

Although speaking of BluRay... wasn't it Enterprise that was actually shot with HD in mind? Pity that DS9 and Voyager weren't ahead of the curve at that point.
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Old December 1 2009, 01:03 AM   #10
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

NickRyder wrote: View Post
if they need to redo effects, I'm sure Digital Domain or whoever their CGI effects house at the time was still has copies of the models and such.
Foundation Imaging did the CGI effects for seasons 6 & 7 of DS9, same company that did seasons 1 - 3 for Babylon 5. That company is long gone.
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Old December 1 2009, 01:06 AM   #11
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

NickRyder wrote: View Post
Although speaking of BluRay... wasn't it Enterprise that was actually shot with HD in mind?
AFAIK, yes, ENT was made to be airable in HD from the get-go. I know it actually has aired in full HD on several channels, so I can only assume this means it could be released on Blu-Ray right now.
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Old December 1 2009, 10:22 AM   #12
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

Apparently, the effects on Enterprise, though up-rezed to HD, were only actually rendered at 480p. The same thing happened with Firefly, which is available on Blu-Ray in HD, but the effects are not nearly as good as the live-action footage because they're not true HD. Of course, if Paramount ponied up the cash, re-rendering the effects in HD would likely be an easy process.
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Old December 2 2009, 02:17 AM   #13
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

Klaitu wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post
It is very unlikely that TNG, DS9, or VOY will ever be remastered for release on Blu-Ray. If I recall correctly it has something to do with the film they were recorded on that will make it very grainy on a Blu-Ray player; plus it is very expensive to redo all of the visual effects to support the new format.
I disagree. The quality of film is not a problem, as even 8mm film can be scanned at high resolution and look great.
Yes, but there's the problem right there. No completed episode even exists on film of any kind. The episodes were filmed on film, but postproduction -- all the editing, FX, the entire edited episode -- was transferred to videotape. Meaning all the episodes of TNG, DS9, and VOY only exist on videotape. There are no film edits. We're talking the entire episode, not just the FX scenes. In short, the special FX are the least of our worries.

TOS was simple to remaster. The episodes existed on film, fully edited. They just did an HD transfer and cleaned up the picture. Simple. In order to see TNG and DS9 in HD, they have to go back to the original film, find the right takes of every scene (assuming every bit of film still exists), try to edit them exactly as they were edited in the first place (since the already completed audio, music, and sound FX tracks leave little room for error), add new FX (probably the easiest part of the whole project) and basically put the entire series back in postproduction again. A far, far greater and more expensive challenge than remastering TOS.

The trouble here is how the effects were done. If they were composited on video tape like TNG was, they'll have to redo them.
Again, everything is on videotape. The episodes as they now exist will never appear in HD. The best they'll ever look is the way "Trials and Tribble-ations" looked upconverted on TOS season two blu-ray.
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Old December 2 2009, 04:04 AM   #14
Harvey
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

Timecode makes all the worries about finding the correct shots from the original negative go away. The fact that "everything" is on videotape is not the issue. The fact that the effects are only on videotape is. Re-editing the episodes from the original negatives utilizing the timecode to match the mastered NTSC version with it ain't no thing. Trust me.

TOS might end up being the more difficult project, simply due to the age of the negative. TNG, and especially DS9, will be in much better shape and won't require as much work before they're transfered to HD.
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Old December 2 2009, 04:06 AM   #15
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Re: DS9 on Blu Ray

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
No completed episode even exists on film of any kind.
Are you sure about that? I thought that the original film elements still existed in the Paramount vault.

Harvey wrote: View Post
Apparently, the effects on Enterprise, though up-rezed to HD, were only actually rendered at 480p.
Perhaps, but rerendering effects isn't the same as recreating them from scratch, is it? As I understand it, rerendering a bit of special effects is a bit like recompiling a program. You don't have to write it all over again.
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