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Old November 9 2009, 10:23 PM   #1
Candlelight
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State-run health care

Just wondering what the big deal is. I watched a news item last night about Republicans going batshit crazy over Obama's new health care plan.

I don't see what the big deal is. In New Zealand we pay our taxes and the healthcare is free(ish). I've always been against user pays as incomes are so low.

Am I missing something? Or is there just a huge pro-user pays mindset in the US?
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Old November 9 2009, 10:27 PM   #2
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Re: State-run health care

There's a huge "if you can't afford health care, you should die quickly and not burden the rest of us" mentality in this country. Well, a bit less than half of Americans seem to feel that way, at least.
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Old November 9 2009, 10:29 PM   #3
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Re: State-run health care

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
There's a huge "if you can't afford health care, you should die quickly and not burden the rest of us" mentality in this country.
Not quite that extreme. More like, "If you can't afford health care, why is that my problem?"
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Old November 9 2009, 10:30 PM   #4
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Re: State-run health care

i just don't get why Americans automatically think state-supported healthcare = socialist = Communist.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!

everyone equally being supported by the government should be something you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers should be getting behind.
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Old November 9 2009, 10:32 PM   #5
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Re: State-run health care

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
i just don't get why Americans automatically think state-supported healthcare = socialist = Communist.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!

everyone equally being supported by the government should be something you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers should be getting behind.
Hey, I'm right there with ya.
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Old November 9 2009, 10:36 PM   #6
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Re: State-run health care

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
There's a huge "if you can't afford health care, you should die quickly and not burden the rest of us" mentality in this country. Well, a bit less than half of Americans seem to feel that way, at least.
Sadly, this is quite accurate. And we're supposed to be a "Christian" country.
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Old November 9 2009, 10:46 PM   #7
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Re: State-run health care

Yeah, I've never understood what the big deal is either. Here in evil socialist Europe my health care is state run, but I still pick my own doctor and go for a second opinion if I want to. And if the state doesn't want to pay for an elective procedure, I can always pay out of my pocket at a private hospital or cover it with additional insurance.

(And to those worrying about death panels for the elderly... well, my grandpa went through operations and very advanced treatment for kidney cancer 2 years ago, when he was 82.. The state covered it all. He's doing fine now, has to go for checkups every 3 months but there's no sign of the cancer returning. I'm kinda glad to pay taxes when I know it goes towards good healthcare.)
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Old November 10 2009, 12:30 AM   #8
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Re: State-run health care

Candlelight wrote: View Post
Am I missing something? Or is there just a huge pro-user pays mindset in the US?
Lately, I'm coming to believe that a good chunk of the country believes in the notion that the only real freedom is the freedom to spend money how they please. It's one of the reasons we have such a huge problem with lobbying and everyone crying about taxation while we're paying the lowest taxes since WW2.

But, then, I find it difficult to take the American populace seriously on issues of financial responsibility when the average person is eight grand in the hole to credit card sharks.
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Old November 10 2009, 01:00 AM   #9
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Re: State-run health care

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Not quite that extreme. More like, "If you can't afford health care, why is that my problem?"
That's pretty much my position on the issue. People need to understand that health insurance is an essential, the same as food and shelter. Yet most people consistently overlook this priority while they're buying DVDs, McMansions, driving SUVs, etc. They just assume that they'll always be employed and have health insurance through their employer.

When I was 21 and working one of the first things I did was purchase a private disability insurance policy and I made damned sure that in the event I became disabled that the policy would continue to pay my health insurance premiums. I never thought I'd ever use it, but at age 50 I became unable to work full time and a decision I made 29 years earlier has made all the difference in the world to myself and my family.

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!.
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Old November 10 2009, 01:11 AM   #10
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Re: State-run health care

So just because someone isn't forward thinking they should go sans health insurance? I dont' think so. No one should have to pay for health insurance.
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Old November 10 2009, 01:12 AM   #11
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Re: State-run health care

Mallory wrote: View Post
That's pretty much my position on the issue. People need to understand that health insurance is an essential, the same as food and shelter. Yet most people consistently overlook this priority while they're buying DVDs, McMansions, driving SUVs, etc. They just assume that they'll always be employed and have health insurance through their employer.

When I was 21 and working one of the first things I did was purchase a private disability insurance policy and I made damned sure that in the event I became disabled that the policy would continue to pay my health insurance premiums. I never thought I'd ever use it, but at age 50 I became unable to work full time and a decision I made 29 years earlier has made all the difference in the world to myself and my family.
And I think you need to realise that not everyone's inability to afford healthcare is down to poor decision making on their part. This is the core fallacy of the anti-UHC argument, imho. That poverty is a choice that people make, a bed they've made and need to lie in. Sure, there are people that are stupid with money - no-one would deny that. But healthcare that is worth having is expensive. There are many who simply cannot afford it.
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Old November 10 2009, 01:13 AM   #12
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Re: State-run health care

I get the impression that a government run health care system would be somewhat less convenient and easy access than, say, an HMO. Think of the kind of lines you get at the DMV, then imagine that at the hospital.

Choose two of these three options: cheap, fast, and good. You can have any two of these things, but not all three.
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Old November 10 2009, 01:14 AM   #13
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Re: State-run health care

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I get the impression that a government run health care system would be somewhat less convenient and easy access than, say, an HMO. Think of the kind of lines you get at the DMV, then imagine that at the hospital.
Your impression is wrong. That would not happen. How do I know this? It hasn't happened anywhere else where there is UHC.
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Old November 10 2009, 01:17 AM   #14
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Re: State-run health care

sidious618 wrote: View Post
That would not happen. How do I know this? It hasn't happened anywhere else where there is UHC.
And what about taxes? They'd have to go way, way up, wouldn't they? Somebody's got to pay for all this. Remember: (cheap, fast, good) x 2/3 ...

Oh well. If people could still keep the insurance plans they get now - such as, from their employer - and this new plan would be just another option, I don't see a problem with that.

And picking my own doctor is a must. I don't want the State telling me who to go to, or what procedures I'm allowed to have.
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Old November 10 2009, 01:19 AM   #15
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Re: State-run health care

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
And what about taxes? They'd have to go way, way up, wouldn't they? Somebody's got to pay for all this. Remember: (cheap, fast, good) x 2/3 ...
Depending on how we budget it we wouldn't have to raise taxes much. Plus, in the long run, it will help our economy.
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