RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,048
Posts: 5,430,943
Members: 24,926
Currently online: 527
Newest member: In_Correct

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

New Trek Puzzles
By: T'Bonz on Oct 15

Star Trek Online: Delta Rising
By: T'Bonz on Oct 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 7 2009, 07:30 AM   #1
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hole

As previously reported, I enjoyed "Serenity" (the pilot) but didn't care for the next few eps... so, I jumped ahead to Serenity the movie, which I'd seen a few years ago; I figured that since my favorite aspects of the pilot were Mal and the Tams, that was my best bet.

I enjoyed parts of Serenity quite a bit, but was overall frustrated, because the Reavers - the whole plot's raison d'être - make no sense whatsoever. If they're rage-filled crazies who are always super-aggressive, as the movie pretty clearly states, than how can they pilot and maintain their ships? Particularly since the show and movie are always stressing Serenity the ship's fragility, the Reavers' spacefaring capabilities should be impossible.

It didn't have to be that way. For all we know from "Serenity" (the pilot) and their attack on the moon in the movie's first half, Reavers are just normal guys who take stim-packs or chug Romulan ale before going into battle. But, in order to make a fairly banal statement about human nature (breaking news: doping the bejeezus out of people infringes upon their humanity!), Whedon absolutely shredded the already tenuous credibility of his 'verse according to his own rules.

That he was apparently planning this plot revelation years before the movie is worrisome. In any case, I think I'll stick with "Serenity" the pilot when it comes to this series in the future.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 07:42 AM   #2
Lindley
Moderator with a Soul
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

Well, they're clearly not aggressive to each other, at least not to the same extent. Once you accept that they're capable of hunting in packs, other forms of cooperation such as ship operation enter the realm of possibility.

It's a bit of a rationalization, but not enough to detract from my enjoyment of the film.
__________________
Lead Organizer for EVN: Firefly.
"So apparently the really smart zombies have automatic weapons!"
-Torg, Sluggy Freelance
Lindley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 11:25 AM   #3
Australis
Writer
 
Australis's Avatar
 
Location: The Electric Age
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

The thing that derails that film for me was the whole inner/outer planets thing.

Too many planets orbiting one sun.

Way too many outside the Goldilocks Zone. All they had to say was inner planetary systems, outer planetary systems, and it would have been fine.
__________________
"… Times change, and so must I… we all change. When you think about it, we are all different people, all through our lives and that’s okay, that’s good! You've gotta keep moving, so long as you remember all the people that you used to be."
Australis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 12:58 PM   #4
FPAlpha
Rear Admiral
 
FPAlpha's Avatar
 
Location: Mannheim, Germany
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

I'd imagine they are like Klingons on steroids but with a strong leader they can almost function like a society.

So every Reaver captain has to constantly keep his crew under control and pressure so they don't tear themselves apart during space travel but when they arrive at their destination all bets are off.
__________________
"But that emergency was supposed to be the fall of an Avenger!" Phil Coulson
"Exactly!"
Nick Fury
FPAlpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 02:52 PM   #5
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

if the Pax drove their agressor instincts off the scale, though, I don't see how they'd be controlling WHO they attack. Not like they are zombies that need non-infected brains, they're just people driven insane with agression/rage. They'd have torn themselves apart LONG before they managed to control themselves long enough to reach space.

And even working together, once a battle started, the blood rage would have them just as likely to attack each other as the good guys...
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 03:17 PM   #6
Mark_Nguyen
Commodore
 
Mark_Nguyen's Avatar
 
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

The Firefly "'verse" never made sense to me either. Whedon admitted he never put too much thought into it, aside from just having one system with as many planets and moons as he needed to make his stories.

Fans have posited that the 'verse is actually a quinary system with FIVE stars to worry about:

http://www.fireflyshipworks.com/wp-c...e-frontbig.jpg

I still wouldn't buy it as a viable place, but hey - in 2003 we only knew of a handful of planets period, and now we have hundreds with literally millions more out there. What the hell, it's good sci-fi.

Mark
__________________
Mark Nguyen - Producer
The 404s - Improv Comedy Group

Oh, I like that Trek thing too...
Mark_Nguyen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 04:11 PM   #7
Forbin
Admiral
 
Forbin's Avatar
 
Location: I said out, dammit!
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

Joss freely admits he has no grasp of real science. But his stories are about people, and the firefly verse is just a framework to let him tell his stories about the people.
Forbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 05:47 PM   #8
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

I suppose its possible that a bunch of them DID go nuts and kill each other, but some of them managed to steal ships and escape the planet. Maybe, once off the planet's surface when they were no longer being exposed to the PAX, they were able to sort things out.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 05:54 PM   #9
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

Wasn't there supposed to have been a massive amount of terraforming gone on in the system? That would certainly explain all the viable planets and moons
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 05:56 PM   #10
Brent
Admiral
 
Brent's Avatar
 
Location: TARDIS
Send a message via ICQ to Brent Send a message via AIM to Brent Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Brent
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

Didn't they terraform planets and moons anyway
__________________
"Would you mind not standing on my chest? My hat's on fire." - The Doctor

My Let's Play Series of STO - http://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us
Brent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 05:58 PM   #11
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

Yeah, but the opening scene describes "dozens of planets, hundreds of moons." Seems like way too big a number.

Although, maybe the definition of "planet" and "moon" have changed. Remember when Pluto was a planet just a few years ago?
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 06:05 PM   #12
Ethros
Vice Admiral
 
Ethros's Avatar
 
Location: 1123 6536 5321
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

The explanation of "dozens of planets, hundreds of moons" work just fine for me. It's not a documentary
Ethros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 06:07 PM   #13
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

It doesn't bother me either. But I know it does bother some people.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 06:07 PM   #14
Brent
Admiral
 
Brent's Avatar
 
Location: TARDIS
Send a message via ICQ to Brent Send a message via AIM to Brent Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Brent
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

I can believe that in our entire universe of possibilities out there, there might be systems like these
__________________
"Would you mind not standing on my chest? My hat's on fire." - The Doctor

My Let's Play Series of STO - http://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us
Brent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7 2009, 06:11 PM   #15
bigdaddy
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Space Massachusetts
Re: Second time for "Serenity"... and ran right into the huge plot hol

That is your huge plot hole?

How about the fact they were supposed to be doing very poorly and still got money for a hover car?
__________________
The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.
bigdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
firefly, serenity

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.