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Old October 29 2009, 01:20 AM   #1
Dream
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Batman Returns

I rewatched Batman Returns after not seeing it for a long time. Still awesome.

I love how deliciously dark it is and the fact that it takes place during Christmas. Penguin and Catwoman are vastly different from the comics but they were well developed villains unlike the next two Batman movies where the writers simply stopped trying. Their alliance is also very short and they realistically turn on each other quickly. Danny DeVito, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Christopher Walken are fabulous in this. This movie also has the best love interest for Bruce in the film series. Michael Keaton grew in the role and I still think this movie has the best looking Batsuit out of the series. The music is superb.

I only dislike a few things about this movie. The Penguin army with rockets near the end were and still is very silly. There is also not much action during the first hour. I guess no movie is perfect. I hate how Joel Shoemaker turned Gotham City into neon city in the next movies and am glad Keaton got out while he still could.

Did you like Batman Returns?
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Old October 29 2009, 01:21 AM   #2
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Re: Batman Returns

Heck yea I did . Danny Devito did a very good job as the Penguin. Overall the movie was pretty good.
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Old October 29 2009, 01:52 AM   #3
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Re: Batman Returns

I have a love/hate relationship with this movie. There are some aspects that are really, really good. Things are developed well (the villains) and others not so much (Batman). Personally, I think the film had a little too much Tim Burton in it for its own good.

My overall impression of it is that I think it is a decent movie, but a terrible Batman movie.
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Old October 29 2009, 03:04 AM   #4
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Re: Batman Returns

I essentially agree with I Got A Rock. I like the movie itself (even more than the first one, disliking Keaton's Batman as I do) but Batman's presence in BR is almost an afterthought it's so underdeveloped.
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Old October 29 2009, 03:13 AM   #5
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Re: Batman Returns

I Got A Rock wrote: View Post
I have a love/hate relationship with this movie. There are some aspects that are really, really good. Things are developed well (the villains) and others not so much (Batman). Personally, I think the film had a little too much Tim Burton in it for its own good.

My overall impression of it is that I think it is a decent movie, but a terrible Batman movie.
Praetor wrote: View Post
I essentially agree with I Got A Rock. I like the movie itself (even more than the first one, disliking Keaton's Batman as I do) but Batman's presence in BR is almost an afterthought it's so underdeveloped.
And I have to agree with the both of you. As much as I love this film, I thought it became ironicly too ''comicbook-like'' at the end with the stupid Penguins & there remote control beenie hats.
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Old October 29 2009, 04:01 AM   #6
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Re: Batman Returns

Yeah, too Tim Burton. Too dark for general audiences, which would lead to the ruination of the franchise.

I think Devito was underrated as Penguin, of course Michelle Pfieffer and Walken overshadow him. But they got off easy, no fat suit and prosthetics. (I still say, if he wanted Tiny Tim, why didn't he just get Tiny Tim?)

He's the anti-Bruce Wayne, abandoned, not orphaned. Raised by criminal carnies, and out for revenge not justice. Yet, he never seems sympathetic, only repulsive. This leads to the great, if sooo comic booky, line "You are just jealous because I'm a genuine freak and you have to wear a mask!"

Gotham City suffers in this film a bit, it seems like an old zoo, a couple of city block sets and some sewers. IIRC, the sets from the first film were destroyed by a fire? And the designer died. Anyway, it wasn't as convincing as the first film in that aspect. Though not as over-the-top absurd as Schuemacher's Gotham.

Catwoman's origin was just strange.

"Licked back to life by cats?"

"What?"

"Well, the first movie did mega millions, Burton knows what he's doing!"

Plus her disappearing high heels.

And, yes, the ending was muddled to be kind. Penguin's plan to kidnap the kids was foiled near instantly. We don't even get to see Bats kick the organ grinder's ass (RIP Vicent Schiavelli). So then he has his Penguin army form...and that is also foiled quicky. In fact, Pengy's failures are one reason why he's overshadowed in the movie. The dramatic confrontation isn't his...it's Catwoman, Batman and Shrek's.

My favorite scene is Batman stuck in the Batmobile while Penguin controls it. Then Bats finds the control device they planted and Penguin loses control, and screams at the screen...which Batman punches.
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Old October 29 2009, 04:17 AM   #7
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Re: Batman Returns

I lie Returns, and love Walken's delivery in the following exchange:

Maximillian 'Max' Shreck: Selina! Selina Kyle, you're fired! And Bruce Wayne, why are you dressed up like Batman?
Catwoman: Because he *is* Batman, you moron!
Maximillian 'Max' Shreck: Was.
[shoots Batman]
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Old October 29 2009, 04:24 AM   #8
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Re: Batman Returns

I need to get this movie again. I probably haven't seen in it at least 10 years.

As noted, it has a lot of bad in it, but the good outweighs it by a wide margin. A great, odd movie.
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Old October 29 2009, 04:25 AM   #9
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Re: Batman Returns

Yeah, the problem was that this was less a Batman movie and more a Tim Burton movie. Not that it's BAD being a Tim Burton movie, but it really should have been a Batman movie.

Pfeiffer was magnifico, though.
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Old October 29 2009, 04:27 AM   #10
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Re: Batman Returns

MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Yeah, too Tim Burton. Too dark for general audiences, which would lead to the ruination of the franchise.
People were expecting family friendly from Batman Returns and were shocked when it wasn't. However I don't think the movie being dark was a bad thing. The Dark Knight has to be the second darkest Batman movie after Batman Returns and it is the most sucessful move in the franchise. After the first movie the sequel was bound to be less sucessful.


I think Devito was underrated as Penguin, of course Michelle Pfieffer and Walken overshadow him. But they got off easy, no fat suit and prosthetics. (I still say, if he wanted Tiny Tim, why didn't he just get Tiny Tim?)
I love Penguin's interactions with Batman. They couldn't be more different even though they started with similar backgrounds. I like the first "Things changes" confrontation they had together.

Gotham City suffers in this film a bit, it seems like an old zoo, a couple of city block sets and some sewers. IIRC, the sets from the first film were destroyed by a fire? And the designer died. Anyway, it wasn't as convincing as the first film in that aspect. Though not as over-the-top absurd as Schuemacher's Gotham.
I thought that the Batcave was better in the first movie. It seems to have shrunk in the Returns.

Catwoman's origin was just strange.
I like to pretend the nine lives thing was just in her head and that she was just damn lucky.

And, yes, the ending was muddled to be kind. Penguin's plan to kidnap the kids was foiled near instantly. We don't even get to see Bats kick the organ grinder's ass (RIP Vicent Schiavelli). So then he has his Penguin army form...and that is also foiled quicky. In fact, Pengy's failures are one reason why he's overshadowed in the movie. The dramatic confrontation isn't his...it's Catwoman, Batman and Shrek's.
The movie's climax could have been better I agree. It felt like they ran out of time and wanted to get it over with. However I loved how the three villains ended up meeting up with Batman in the finale.

My favorite scene is Batman stuck in the Batmobile while Penguin controls it. Then Bats finds the control device they planted and Penguin loses control, and screams at the screen...which Batman punches.
I loved that entire action sequence. You really felt how crazy Penguin was and how desperate Batman was during the entire thing. It was so fun.
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Old October 29 2009, 04:42 AM   #11
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Re: Batman Returns

I know that originally Shrek was supposed to be Harvey Dent and the accident at the end was meant to make him Two-Face, but how exactly was Shrek's Power Capacitor plot supposed to work for Dent? Shrek was an Industrialist so it makes sense he'd build something like that to store up power so he could sell it back to Gotham years down the line for higher prices, but Dent was just the DA so how would it benefit him?
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Old October 29 2009, 04:58 AM   #12
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Re: Batman Returns

I really enjoyed my most recent viewing of the movie. You have to really embrace that this is Tim Burton unfettered and take it for what it is. Of course, there are armed penguins, how could there not be? It's about the villains and Batman (not so much Bruce Wayne).

There isn't the impressive scope of Gotham that the first movie had but I think the stylized artificial things just make it more Burtonesque.

Michelle Pfeiffer really gives her all in this movie, her Catwoman might not be out of the comics but it's a purr-fect interpretation all its own in its crazy slinky way. I think it's what Halle Berry's Catwoman was striving for but just missed the mark.
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Old October 29 2009, 06:46 AM   #13
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Re: Batman Returns

Anwar wrote: View Post
Yeah, the problem was that this was less a Batman movie and more a Tim Burton movie. Not that it's BAD being a Tim Burton movie, but it really should have been a Batman movie.
This was my favorite of the previous gen Batman movies, but yes, it was a Tim Burton movie first and a (kill-happy) Batman movie second. And Michael Keaton was in like five of the first 30 minutes!

Last edited by Aragorn; October 29 2009 at 09:26 AM.
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Old October 29 2009, 09:25 AM   #14
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Re: Batman Returns

Anwar wrote: View Post
I know that originally Shrek was supposed to be Harvey Dent and the accident at the end was meant to make him Two-Face, but how exactly was Shrek's Power Capacitor plot supposed to work for Dent? Shrek was an Industrialist so it makes sense he'd build something like that to store up power so he could sell it back to Gotham years down the line for higher prices, but Dent was just the DA so how would it benefit him?
Maybe they had something planned along the lines that Dent wanted to go higher in power - wasn't there a mention in a comic that Harvey Dent had aspirations for high political office - and that the Capacitor was his way to ensure it because it would store electricity safely and make it available in the event of some unforseen energy crisis.
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Old October 29 2009, 10:26 AM   #15
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Re: Batman Returns

I loved this film, I thought it was even better than Batman.

I'm not a comic book fan and in fact I have never read a superhero comic book in my life, so I don't really care about how faithful or in keeping with what the majority of Batman fans expect from a Batman movie it is, but I find it to be a wonderfully designed, acted and choreographed film. Burton is a great director, but another of his great talents is surrounding himself with the right talent.

In order of preference my Batman list goes:

Dark Knight
Batman Returns
Batman
Batman Begins

The rest I wouldn't bother to include in a list of favourite anything.
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