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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: What did you think of Children of Earth?
Absolutely loved it! Among the finest television I've ever seen. 33 56.90%
Liked it. Was quite good and worth watching. 14 24.14%
It was ok. Nothing more. 5 8.62%
Not that good. Wasn't really worth it. 1 1.72%
The worst thing I have ever seen on television. Execute all involved. 0 0%
I didn't watch it, but I enjoy the validation of voting in a poll and being involved in something. 5 8.62%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 5 2009, 01:32 AM   #1
Bones
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Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Earth?

I'm quite curious about this, because as I posted in another thread after watching it, I found it flawed and overpadded, with a few good things, but ultimately not really worth the 5 hours one would have to devote to it.

In stark contrast, I'm not sure I've seen a single person on this forum who thinks it's anything less than brilliant. I'd very much like to know if there's anyone of the same mind as me.

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3544222&postcount=138
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Old November 5 2009, 05:35 AM   #2
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

Can't help you here. I thought it was fantastic.
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Old November 5 2009, 07:14 AM   #3
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

As someone who gave up on Torchwood half way through the first season, I'm glad I gave Children of Earth a chance. It was some of the best science fiction television of the decade, and everything Torchwood should have been in the first place.
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Old November 5 2009, 09:52 AM   #4
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Torchwood had been as great as it was in Children of Earth in season 1, it would have been a fantastic series all around. Instead, the first season was mostly a joke with a couple of good episodes, season 2 was remarkably better with only a couple stinkers, and season 3 being mostly awesome.
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Old November 5 2009, 09:56 AM   #5
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

One of the best things I've seen on TV, absolutely fantastic!
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Old November 5 2009, 11:52 AM   #6
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

Blimey, I'm really onto a loser with this one.

And my criticisms, they don't hold any water for you?
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Old November 5 2009, 11:58 AM   #7
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

USS Bones wrote: View Post
Blimey, I'm really onto a loser with this one.

And my criticisms, they don't hold any water for you?
I though you argued your case very well, and I understand why you don't like it. Fair enough, I say! We can't all like the same things.

However, I loved CoE. It's the only Torchwood I do like, actually.

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Old November 5 2009, 12:08 PM   #8
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

The world would be a boring place if we all liked the same things. Take me, whilst I like it I can't graps the notion notion that Firefly is the "greatest show evah!" so many people proclaim it to be, same with BSG. By the same token my favourite show of all time is Blakes 7, and I know I'm in a minority there
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Old November 5 2009, 12:39 PM   #9
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

If there's one level CoE is working on, it's the debate that seems to spring up about what the right thing for the cabinet to do would have been. Personally, I think that if you can either hand over 10% of your children, or have the entire world wiped out, give them the children. And once you've decided on giving the children, it's a sad logic that you should make them the less promising ones. But the thing is, we're meant to clearly see the cabinet as plain wrong for looking at things this way.

It's the same thing with Star Trek: Insurrection. Personally, I think that the Federation and Son'a were quite right to remove the Ba'ku, even though the film is obviously trying to make us think they're absolutely wrong. A lot seem to agree with me, but others don't. And even though it's my second least favourite ST film, it's provoked discussion which is always nice. And I suppose CoE has done the same thing. I thought it was a weak bit of television overall, but there's discussion to be had out of it at least.
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Old November 5 2009, 01:07 PM   #10
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

Took the second option. I liked it and it was an incredible improvement over the first and second seasons. It was really good, even excellent, but not the all time greatest TV.
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Old November 5 2009, 01:39 PM   #11
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

USS Bones wrote: View Post
And my criticisms, they don't hold any water for you?
They don't really have to: you don't like it, and you have every right not to like it. Your view of the characters in particular is completely subjective and there's nothing that can be said about that: if you don't like them, you don't like them.

I am, however, not convinced by some of your other arguments, mostly because it seems to me that you're knocking Children of Earth not for what it is, but for what it is not; not for what it does, but for what it doesn't do.

You apparently can't get into the story because what you perceive as logical flaws in the plot and in the way some characters behave. I would say that most of the points you're raising are actually addressed within the story, which is all one can reasonably ask from any writer.

It's self evident that the most logical stories, the one where everything makes perfect sense and where every character acts perfectly rationally, are usually not the best stories, those that speak about human nature and the way we interact with the world and with each other. Simply put, we are not rational, and the universe is far too complex to be entirely predictable.

Logic doesn't make drama better: verisimilitude and internal consistency do, but they operate on a different level. Yes, Hamlet should probably leave Denmark and forget the whole thing. Yes, Scrooge's change of heart is far-fetched. Yes, Captain Jack might have come up with a different way to defeat the 456. But yet we remember those stories, not because they're nitpick-proof, but because they're true to the human experience.
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Old November 5 2009, 05:22 PM   #12
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

To me Children of Earth had some brilliant moments. Scenes involving Frobisher were simply brilliant. However I felt that the plot meandered a bit too much on the first two days. For example, we did not need Rupesh the Torchwood spy and I felt more emphasis could have been placed on Gwen and her pregnancy.

Still, this is by far the best season of Torchwood I have seen.
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Old November 5 2009, 05:31 PM   #13
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

USS Bones wrote: View Post
If there's one level CoE is working on, it's the debate that seems to spring up about what the right thing for the cabinet to do would have been. Personally, I think that if you can either hand over 10% of your children, or have the entire world wiped out, give them the children. And once you've decided on giving the children, it's a sad logic that you should make them the less promising ones. But the thing is, we're meant to clearly see the cabinet as plain wrong for looking at things this way.
My problem with cabinet's actions is this:

Destroying Torchwood. Torchwood should have been the first people they contacted, and they should have worked with Torchwood to come up with an alternate strategy to giving up the children.

Instead, they were too worried about their own image, so they tried to bury the truth.

Giving up the children was their last hope, but it was their own fault that it was their last hope. So yes, they did the smart thing by giving up the children, but there are other things they should have done before they got to that point.
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Old November 6 2009, 10:10 AM   #14
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

Destroying Torchwood wasn't so much about the current situation as about taking Jack out so what happened in the 60s could be covered up.

Remember when they took out Torchwood the 456 hadn't arrived yet, and hadn't given their list of demands. For all the British government knew the 456 were going to request another handful of kids...

"Ok Frobisher, find me the ten kids with the most ASBOs against them..."
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Old November 6 2009, 04:56 PM   #15
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Re: Did any of you Doctor Who/Torchwood fans NOT love Children of Eart

intrinsical wrote: View Post
To me Children of Earth had some brilliant moments. Scenes involving Frobisher were simply brilliant. However I felt that the plot meandered a bit too much on the first two days. For example, we did not need Rupesh the Torchwood spy and I felt more emphasis could have been placed on Gwen and her pregnancy.

Still, this is by far the best season of Torchwood I have seen.
Rupesh was just there as a red herring to wrong-foot fans of the earlier series. Their doctor died in the last series and so, as with every sci fi show, if we lose a character, we get a reasonably similar replacement. They tricked me quite effectively there.
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