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Old October 30 2009, 02:14 AM   #91
Christopher
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I see there's a real Captain Dunsel...so where does the insult that bears his name (used by Starfleet Academy cadets in TOS' time) come from? Dunsel wasn't useless, although he may have felt that way. He and his crew sacrificed themselves in battle. What could be more useFUL than that?
But there was a reference to the tone of despair and hopelessness that pervaded Captain Dunsel's final log entry jettisoned in the log buoy before that. So I guess history would've been written based on that log entry rather than on the act of heroism that followed. Sometimes history gets it wrong.
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Old October 30 2009, 02:19 AM   #92
Corran Horn
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I just hope there's at least one NX-class ship left standing at the end of this sumbitch...they're dropping like flies here...
Very much agreed. Was nice Endeavor survived.
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Old October 30 2009, 02:49 AM   #93
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Corran Horrrrrrrrible wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I just hope there's at least one NX-class ship left standing at the end of this sumbitch...they're dropping like flies here...
Very much agreed. Was nice Endeavor survived.
Oh God, don't tell me Atlantis buys it too? I'm not that far yet. At the point I'm at, there's still NX's 1, 2, 5 and 6.

Edit: Now I'm to the part where Travis ruminates on how he's become a jinx across the whole fleet and no one will approve his transfer requests.

I do think it's a bit of a coincidence that so many Romulans are showing up who will one day have starships named after them...

And what's this Haakona, anyway? Is it any relation to the Haakonian Order from VOY?

Nice shout-out to the TOS Technical Manual, with Karzan. He becomes praetor in this novel, and in the tech manual, Karzan is said to be the Romulan praetor who negotiated their end of the peace treaty. Although since the tech manual assumes it was a *Federation*-Romulan war, which is obviously impossible here, that particular continuity may not have been necessary.

And looks like Lydia Littlejohn appears as well. The future head of state (*not* head of government) for United Earth...
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Old October 30 2009, 04:06 PM   #94
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Corran Horrrrrrrrible wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I just hope there's at least one NX-class ship left standing at the end of this sumbitch...they're dropping like flies here...
Very much agreed. Was nice Endeavor survived.
Oh God, don't tell me Atlantis buys it too? I'm not that far yet. At the point I'm at, there's still NX's 1, 2, 5 and 6.

Edit: Now I'm to the part where Travis ruminates on how he's become a jinx across the whole fleet and no one will approve his transfer requests.

I do think it's a bit of a coincidence that so many Romulans are showing up who will one day have starships named after them...

And what's this Haakona, anyway? Is it any relation to the Haakonian Order from VOY?

Nice shout-out to the TOS Technical Manual, with Karzan. He becomes praetor in this novel, and in the tech manual, Karzan is said to be the Romulan praetor who negotiated their end of the peace treaty. Although since the tech manual assumes it was a *Federation*-Romulan war, which is obviously impossible here, that particular continuity may not have been necessary.

And looks like Lydia Littlejohn appears as well. The future head of state (*not* head of government) for United Earth...
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Old October 30 2009, 04:50 PM   #95
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

I just finished this book last night and wished there was a second book to contine where the story left off and I have to say i really liked this book alot one of the best Enterprise relaunch books yet. I do wonderwhat will happen
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Old October 30 2009, 05:50 PM   #96
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I do think it's a bit of a coincidence that so many Romulans are showing up who will one day have starships named after them...

And what's this Haakona, anyway? Is it any relation to the Haakonian Order from VOY?
Haakona was the name of Romulan Subcommander Taris's ship in TNG: "Contagion." In Star Charts, Geoffrey Mandel named multiple Romulan and Klingon worlds after Romulan and Klingon ships (respectively) seen in the various shows. So that's why there's a planet Haakona in this book.

The only connection to VGR's Haakonians is that the respective writers of "Contagion" and "Jetrel" were probably both influenced by Haakon, the name of various historical Norwegian kings.
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Old October 30 2009, 08:29 PM   #97
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

So what the hell is it with Y'cha, anyway? Who is she working for?
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Old October 30 2009, 09:59 PM   #98
Reanok
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

That's what I've been wondering who Y'Cha is working for and what her motives are when it comes to certain actions she takes in the book.
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Old October 30 2009, 11:52 PM   #99
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

I found it interesting to learn who Dunsel was.
I would speculate that Enterprise will be the only NX class ship left in Starfleet at the end of the War.
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Old October 31 2009, 12:17 AM   #100
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Haven't read this yet, but I think it's safe to assume the Enterprise survives the war because didn't Troi say in TATV that she had visited it in the museum?
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Old October 31 2009, 04:29 PM   #101
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Finished it yesterday, and agree with many of the comments already made.

I like the "quantity over quality due to wartime pressures" in bringing an uprated Daedalus-class to the forefront, but dislike how the theme got overly-particular in some ways. There was no need to get THAT specific. One could conjecture that part of Starfleet's resistance was not just relative primitiveness, but also some quirk of technological architecture (which until recently had been relatively isolated) similar to the Klingons' resistance to the Breen energy-damper in the Dominion War. No need to explain everything down to analog chronometers (which were replaced in the remastered version anyway).

I like the Travis arc -- bridge crews have to break up sometimes, and he was so under-used in the show he was probably the best candidate for branching off. And about time he got a promotion. Just wish his ships had better luck.

The Trip arc is leaving me cold. It's getting harder to follow, and every turn seems to send it skidding farther and farther off track. Let whatever T'Pau's asking to be the finale, and let him get back to his friends and family. (For peripheral characters, I have surprisingly strong identification with Trip's parents. I actually breathed a sigh of relief the Bert & hubby were not caught up in the Tau Ceti invasion. And why am I not identifying with Trip himself like this?)

I liked the nods to other stories in this general timeframe (from Lives of Dax, and Starfleet: Year One), and a bunch of other "Easter eggs" (e.g, Latrunculo, the Romulan chess-like game from "The Final Reflection", the Great Brothers from FASA's Romulan materials, etc.) In one of Diane Carey's books (Final Frontier) the Romulans also used "swarmbird" fighter/gunboats operating off a warp-capable carrier/tender. Was their use here another nod, or parallel thinking?

One (more) typographical error note: The third author of the RPG sourcebook "The Andorians: Among the Clans" is Adam Dickstein, not Dickinson.(Adam's a personal acquaintance.)
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Old November 1 2009, 01:55 AM   #102
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Space is described as "an infinitely large velvet blanket of emptiness." That phase, found on page 119, should give you an idea of the style. I'm reserving judgment on the plot.
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Old November 1 2009, 05:53 AM   #103
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

So, any thoughts on who the assassin is, and who their employer is?

My money's on either Terix or Talok as the assassin (probably Talok, as he is never named again after that scene where he arrives on Vulcan in disguise), and Y'cha as the employer. Come on, she's obviously a Romulan or at least working with them. She's not right. Never trusted her from the get-go. Denak also could be working with them, as that group mind meld scene definitely made me suspicious.

Not sure how I feel about all the NX-class ships being destroyed (except for Enterprise obviously). It looks too much like an attempt to 'nuke' the look and feel of ENT as the series showed us, like an "Okay, we GET it, that show looked way too advanced, now we're getting rid of everything in it" thing, so that the primitive appearance of TOS would be more believable. I mean, I realize why the Daedaluses (Daedali?) look the way they do, I just don't know if it was necessary to get rid of all the ENT-era ships in the process.

Also: Yes, I've seen the dedication page, and yes, I know who Praetor D'deridex (and the conflict at Haakona) is based on, and no, I don't particularly care. If MAM's intent was to anger me, he failed.

One question, though: What's the Tal Shiar doing here? I thought they weren't formed until the events of Vulcan's Heart in 2344. Linky The Romulans had a different 'Security Department' before that (and it's implied that 'Tal Shiar' came from the names TAL and SHIARkiek who are characters in that novel). No big deal, really, just curious.
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Old November 1 2009, 07:21 AM   #104
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
One question, though: What's the Tal Shiar doing here? I thought they weren't formed until the events of Vulcan's Heart in 2344. Linky The Romulans had a different 'Security Department' before that (and it's implied that 'Tal Shiar' came from the names TAL and SHIARkiek who are characters in that novel). No big deal, really, just curious.
The obvious answer is that while Vulcan's Heart included a scene with the creation of the Tal Shiar, other sources don't agree with that book and extend its history farther back.
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Old November 1 2009, 07:27 AM   #105
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Re: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

EmperorKalan wrote: View Post
The obvious answer is that while Vulcan's Heart included a scene with the creation of the Tal Shiar, other sources don't agree with that book and extend its history farther back.
I realize that authors aren't *obligated* to share continuity these days, but they seem to be doing a great job of it anyway. Oh well, it's not a big deal. And there's no *proof* of the origin of the name Tal Shiar like I suggested, in fact it could have been the other way around (Tal and Shiarkiek could have been named after whatever the words 'Tal' and 'Shiar' mean).
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