The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing - Discuss (SPOILERS)

[CaptainDonovin]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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I'm about halfway through the book now. I like it a lot.

I mean, any Trek novel that manages to quote Yogi Berra is all right in my book!

(One thing, though: When is Columbia due to 'disappear', a la the Destiny trilogy? Shouldn't that be about ready to happen?)

I think it was mentioned in chapter 53 or something. I read it but can't remember off hand but do remember Archer was wondering what happened to it.

[Christopher]

By my estimate, Columbia's disappearance happens sometime between Ch. 75 & 76. When Archer wonders about the ship's absence in Ch. 77, it's mentioned that the last time he heard from Hernandez was about a month before, i.e. around May 20. So the Destiny scenes with the Columbia probably begin in late May or so.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I caught a typo: In the bit where the battle above Andoria is happening (can't remember the exact page #, I think it's the late 280's), one of the crew of the Romulan bird of prey is given the name of one of the *Andorian* crew of Shran's ship.

[Sci]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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I caught a typo: In the bit where the battle above Andoria is happening (can't remember the exact page #, I think it's the late 280's), one of the crew of the Romulan bird of prey is given the name of one of the *Andorian* crew of Shran's ship.

There are a fair number of typos in this one for some reason.
One that I caught was in the scene in the Prime Minister's office, Miniser Lydia Littlejohn is sometimes addressed as "Madame Minister" and other times addressed as "Madam Minister."

(Incidentally, I'm always slightly irritated when I see people call someone "Mister Prime Minister" or "Mister Minister" or "Madam Minister." It's purely a stylistic choice, and there's nothing wrong with that style of address, but I greatly prefer the British system, where you address them as, "Prime Minister" or "Minister," no honorific in front of it. But that's completely subjective.)

I think the typos might be because of the editorial upheaval these last few months.

[Mach5]

Am I the only one here who thinks that the attempt to bridge ENT era with TOS era by making ugly starships with primitive technology and trashy interior design was a really bad (borderline absurd) idea?

Why is it so hard for some people to accept the fact that TOS was made back in the sixties when people could barely even imagine stuff like liquid crystal displays, camera phones, palm-size computers with touch screens, let alone think that forty years from then it will all be taken for granted?

Okay, Starfleet made those primitive ships so that the Romulans couldn't use their telecapture system on them, but why make them ugly (as Tobin Dax described them)?
And what about the sudden Romulan use of nukes? Why would anyone revert to old school fusion warheads next to much more powerful anti-matter warheads?

Take nuBSG for example. Galactica was made purposely unsophisticated, so that the Cylons couldn't turn technology against the Humans. They even used old style phones with cords, but they didn't make the ship's interior look like some cheap sixties TV studio set.

TOS just doesn't pass for a believable vision of the future nowadays... Hell, it hasn't been believable for decades now.

So why this need to even bridge ENT to TOS, since TOS era has been successfully re-imagined anyway?

Is following the canon to the letter at the expense of reason and common sense really necessary?

[Corran Horn]

Mach5 wrote:

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Am I the only one here who thinks that the attempt to bridge ENT era with TOS era by making ugly starships with primitive technology and trashy interior design was a really bad (borderline absurd) idea?

I don't know if it's a bad idea, but the execution...I dunno. I felt the descriptions of "the way future engineering has to be" and Dax's reactions were telegraphing the 60's 'treknology' look a little *too* much.

[Sci]

I, on the other hand, quite liked that decision. I thought it was a nice way of tying in TOS depictions of technology with ENT and later Trek's depictions, and I thought it made for some excellent drama between Earth and its allies (and nicely explained why it was called the Earth-Romulan War rather than the Coalition-Romulan War).

As for the use of nukes -- why not? The basic rule of warfare is not, "Newer and better." The rule of war is, "Whatever works."

[CaptainDonovin]

I also liked the way Starfleet had to use older tech to fight off the Romulans. I remember Margaret Clark mentioning this before she was let go as a wat to show why the TOS tech seemed less advanced.

One thing I was a bit surprised at was there seem to be a lot more Starfleet ships than I thought.

[Mach5]

WW1 Flying Ace wrote:

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I also liked the way Starfleet had to use older tech to fight off the Romulans. I remember Margaret Clark mentioning this before she was let go as a wat to show why the TOS tech seemed less advanced.

But what I don't understand is, where is this need to explain the TOS depiction of technology coming from? "OMG, Romulans will destroy us because our tech is too advanced! Quick, redesign our bridge modules to look ridiculous!"

BTW, USS Kelvin originated from the Prime Universe's post-ENT / pre-TOS period, right? And the technology aboard Kelvin appeared far more advanced and futuristic compared to ENT, and especially compared to TOS, right? And Star Trek XI is in fact irrefutably canon, is it not?

I believe you see my point here...

[Sci]

Mach5 wrote:

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But what I don't understand is, where is this need to explain the TOS depiction of technology coming from? "OMG, Romulans will destroy us because our tech is too advanced! Quick, redesign our bridge modules to look ridiculous!"

1. I don't think the TOS bridge looks that primitive. I'd describe it more as looking retro-future.

2. They didn't have to explain the appearance of TOS tech; it was a choice. It was a choice that made for a good story in their view; it's that simple.

BTW, USS Kelvin originated from the Prime Universe's post-ENT / pre-TOS period, right? And the technology aboard Kelvin appeared far more advanced and futuristic compared to ENT, and especially compared to TOS, right? And Star Trek XI is in fact irrefutably canon, is it not?

And the writers of the ENT Relaunch would have had no way of knowing what the Kelvin would look like until ST09 was released.

[Mach5]

Sci wrote:

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1. I don't think the TOS bridge looks that primitive. I'd describe it more as looking retro-future.

With all due respect, the TOS bridge looked like a toy set.

Bridge from "The Cage," however, looked pretty good for its time. But I guess GR and Co. had to change it because it wasn't kitschy enough for the sixties' TV audience.

Sci wrote:

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2. They didn't have to explain the appearance of TOS tech; it was a choice.

That's exactly my problem with it.

Sci wrote:

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It was a choice that made for a good story in their view; it's that simple.

The story itself is pretty good, I concur.

[Dayton Ward]

Mach5 wrote:

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Bridge from "The Cage," however, looked pretty good for its time. But I guess GR and Co. had to change it because it wasn't kitschy enough for the sixties' TV audience.

The bright colors were added to the sets (and Trek's look in general) because NBC was advertising themselves as the "first all-color network" and wanted that shown in their programming. Add to that the fact that RCA, one of the leading sellers of color TVs at that time, owned NBC, and the reasoning becomes that much clearer (and more colorful ).

[Ronald Held]

I think it is a good idea to have a bridge between Enterprise Tech and TOS tech. We need to read a few more novels, before at least I should comment on the execution.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I see there's a real Captain Dunsel...so where does the insult that bears his name (used by Starfleet Academy cadets in TOS' time) come from? Dunsel wasn't useless, although he may have felt that way. He and his crew sacrificed themselves in battle. What could be more useFUL than that?

I just hope there's at least one NX-class ship left standing at the end of this sumbitch...they're dropping like flies here...

[Hartzilla2007]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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I see there's a real Captain Dunsel...so where does the insult that bears his name (used by Starfleet Academy cadets in TOS' time) come from? Dunsel wasn't useless, although he may have felt that way. He and his crew sacrificed themselves in battle. What could be more useFUL than that?

I just hope there's at least one NX-class ship left standing at the end of this sumbitch...they're dropping like flies here...

Well unless they plan to change the name of the series then at least Enterprise has to survive.