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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 24 2009, 07:58 AM   #1
slappy
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"The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

So Beverly and Odan are so in love that they can't keep their hands off each other, no matter what body they're in. Then all of a sudden when the symbiote is put into a woman, Beverly can't take the uncertainty. I'm calling bullshit.

What uncertainty? The type of uncertainty you have when you're in a relationship with any mortal being and they may die? There's actually less uncertainty than in most cases, because a Trill might actually outlive her.

Basically Beverly couldn't adjust to the idea of being a lesbo and wasn't quite as in love as she thought she was.
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Old October 24 2009, 08:19 AM   #2
Tulin
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

Maybe because Beverly was not a lesbian?

Are you male?

If your girlfriend's consciousness/mind/spirit/life energy was put into the body of a reasonably attractive grown adult male's body and was standing there in front of you, would you instantly leap on him and start making mad passionate love?

Would you need days, weeks or even months to consider this new development and how it makes you feel about yourself? About how people would view you? About how your family would react?

No.

Don't do the usual TrekkBBS lame-o thing and respond with some(to you)pithy one liner.

Before you hit "reply", ACTUALLY STOP AND THINK ABOUT THAT.

It took me YEARS of soul searching, introspection and MONTHS of counselling before I got up the gumption to write the letter to my family AND extended family that I was gay and this was how it was going to be - your own thoughts on the matter be damned.

UNTIL you actually had that situation(from the episode)happen, you could NEVER understand what she would be feeling.
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Old October 24 2009, 08:28 AM   #3
RyuRoots
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

And I like to think that the Trekverse is a more accepting and intelligent world, anyway. And even then! You can tell me with a straight face that if the person you're in love with, crazy about, was put into your best platonic friend's body, and still loved you and was affectionate with you like that, and then was put into one that was completely different from the original or your friend, and the possibility of having to adjust to this more times through your life with the line of work they have wouldn't bother you or make you reconsider the relationship at all?
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Old October 24 2009, 09:04 AM   #4
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

This was Odan's third body over a handful of days. Now, Odan may have been able to stick with the female host for a long time afterward, but there was no guarantee. The intention in that moment was the idea that she couldn't take the revolving door policy on who she's seeing. Technically, the mind was Odan's the whole time, but we see people and figure that a different person means a different personality, and to have the personality remain the same while the person changes... That'd be tough on anyone.

That said, I can see how easily it can be taken as 'oh, no, not gonna be gay, bye now.' And the way it's phrased could be taken directly as a message to the LGBT community that 'well, we're not ready for you now, but maybe one day...' But I like to at least think that there were good intentions at heart there.
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Old October 24 2009, 07:54 PM   #5
Jonas Grumby
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

slappy wrote: View Post
Basically Beverly couldn't adjust to the idea of being a lesbo and wasn't quite as in love as she thought she was.
So I take it you're of the school that holds that homosexuality is a choice, and not an integral trait that one is born with.

I think you're also forgetting (if I'm remembering correctly, that is) that the Trill "individual" is a combination of the host's and symbiote's personalities. So to a large degree, Beverly really was being approached in an intimate fashion by a woman she didn't even know.
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Old October 24 2009, 09:21 PM   #6
RyuRoots
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
slappy wrote: View Post
Basically Beverly couldn't adjust to the idea of being a lesbo and wasn't quite as in love as she thought she was.
So I take it you're of the school that holds that homosexuality is a choice, and not an integral trait that one is born with.

I think you're also forgetting (if I'm remembering correctly, that is) that the Trill "individual" is a combination of the host's and symbiote's personalities. So to a large degree, Beverly really was being approached in an intimate fashion by a woman she didn't even know.
That's a reasonable point, actually. Curzon Dax, Jadzia Dax, and Ezri Dax were all Dax, but were all distinctly different. Or rather, by a woman she sort of knew, but not in the way she knew Odan before.
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Old October 24 2009, 09:26 PM   #7
Joel_Kirk
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
slappy wrote: View Post
Basically Beverly couldn't adjust to the idea of being a lesbo and wasn't quite as in love as she thought she was.
So I take it you're of the school that holds that homosexuality is a choice, and not an integral trait that one is born with.

I think you're also forgetting (if I'm remembering correctly, that is) that the Trill "individual" is a combination of the host's and symbiote's personalities. So to a large degree, Beverly really was being approached in an intimate fashion by a woman she didn't even know.
^^

I believe it's a choice....(And I speak from experience).

In regards to the episode: I think it could have been a bit 'daring' and had Beverly continue the relationship with Odan; yes, it could be argued that the woman was someone she didn't know. However, IIRC, Riker had the 'slug' inside of him, and Beverly didn't mind...(IIRC)
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Old October 24 2009, 09:46 PM   #8
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

While not expecting Dr. Bev to switch teams, I do think the ending of that episode was not written as well as it could have been. It's been awhile since I've seen it, but as I recall, Bev comes off as a tight-assed prude more than the kind of compassionate and understanding human being you'd expect a medical doctor of her alleged experience to be.
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Old October 24 2009, 09:47 PM   #9
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

^^

Good post....
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Old October 24 2009, 09:51 PM   #10
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

DISCLAIMER - I haven't seen the episode in a very long time.

It might have helped if Beverly's ending of the relationship hadn't felt so summary.

Odan being a woman = no relationship for me!

Granted they didn't have the time for it, but if they'd shown Crusher trying and failing, or at least taking more time to think about it, it might have helped. It certainly would have helped with any implications that she was homophobic.
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Old October 24 2009, 10:02 PM   #11
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

While I agree that The Host ended very weakly, I think the OP could've been worded with a bit more grace.

But as for today, while I believe that there's a spectrum of orientation out there, I also believe that there are more relaxed attitudes when it comes to labels now than in the early 90s, in that while some people might not identify as exclusively gay or lesbian, we do hear more stories of people questioning or at least open to trying something before determining once and for all their hetero/homo/bi/whatever-sexuality. These days, we're not so stringent on our identities -- case in point, insults using gay derogatories are considered extremely poor taste now, as opposed to 20 years ago when they were much more commonplace and full of vitriol.

That said, I can see someone as warm and open-minded as Beverly at least contemplating a relationship with Female Odan, even if they end up not kissing. Just treating Odan as a person (genderless yet sensual at the same time) in a real heart-to-heart conversation would have been just fine and it would go a long way.
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Old October 24 2009, 10:28 PM   #12
Red Ranger
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

Frankly, I think Beverly acted as most of us would act confronted by such an unusual situation. Maybe the last human prejudice is the appearance of someone you care about, and the ep addressed that. It's true Trek has copped out regarding homosexuals (in filmed canon, anyway), but people are wired a certain way.

Many guys have a fantasy of having a menage-a-troi with two women. Let's flip the script, as an ex did to me once. I told her about my passing interest in such a threesome, and she said, "I'll do that if you also have a threesome with me and another guy." I said, "Hell, no!" And she replied, "That's how I feel about making it with you and another woman." This ex of mine was not a prude -- she worked at a non-profit that dealt with the LGBT community, and one of her best friends was a gay man, so it wasn't that she was a homophobe.

If I were in Beverly's shoes, and had an affair with, say, Ezri Dax, and her next host was a man, I wouldn't be able to continue that relationship, either. The ep is a rare acknowledgement of the limitations of human acceptance based on outward appearance.

So, no lesbian kiss there, horndog fanboys!

Red Rum!
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Old October 24 2009, 11:12 PM   #13
Hober Mallow
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

DonIago wrote: View Post
DISCLAIMER - I haven't seen the episode in a very long time.

It might have helped if Beverly's ending of the relationship hadn't felt so summary.
It may also have helped us the audience if the beginning of the relationship didn't just come out of nowhere.
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Old October 25 2009, 03:38 AM   #14
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

I expect the Beverly/Ezri shippers to post some fanfic in the appropriate forum soon.
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Old October 25 2009, 04:43 AM   #15
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Re: "The Host" Ended In A Big Fat Copout

Undead wrote: View Post
I expect the Beverly/Ezri shippers to post some fanfic in the appropriate forum soon.
I do hope that's a joke (although nothing surprises me anymore).
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