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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

View Poll Results: How do you feel about Voyager?
I love Voyager, both it and DS9 are excellent 13 8.39%
I like Voyager, but I prefer DS9 56 36.13%
Voyager was okay, I have no strong feelings 27 17.42%
I disliked Voyager, DS9 was the superior show 42 27.10%
I loath Voyager, it ruined my life 10 6.45%
I'm not a Niner but I want to vote in this poll 7 4.52%
Voters: 155. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 5 2009, 05:49 PM   #196
barnaclelapse
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

I honestly can't recall if I posted in this already, but I will say that metaphorically speaking DS9 kicked Voyager in the crotch and took its lunch money for a drunken weekend in Mexico.
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Old November 5 2009, 07:34 PM   #197
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Do you also neutralise those who type everything in lower case? If so I would consider donating half my fortune to your organisation.
We are genetically engineering a virus to deal with this very problem as we speak. Non-lethal, of course, you just go to bed with cold symptoms and wake up caring about about grammar, sentence structure and capitalization.

Last edited by flemm; November 5 2009 at 07:52 PM.
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Old November 5 2009, 08:34 PM   #198
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
Why are Niners supposed to be the big Voyager haters? It's only an impression, but it seems to me that Enterprise fans actually criticise Voyager more, if only in a "everyone slags off Enterprise, but I think it was better than Voyager" way. Not that there's anything wrong with a bit of slagging off.
I've made similar observations on this board (sadly, I don't know any Enterprise fans in real life). It seems that loving Voyager and loving Enterprise exclude each other to some extent. I've heard ENT fans say pretty often, "ENT had its problems but at least it wasn't as horrible as Voyager". Funnily, Voyager fans have said the same thing with the shows reversed.
I'm an Enterprise fan and I gave up on Voyager in season 5 or 6 of its original run, so I fit the cliché really well. I think there's an explanation for this phenomenon, though. VOY and ENT are very different shows and therefore appeal to different groups of people.
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Old November 5 2009, 08:34 PM   #199
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

I thought VOY was the weakest Trek series. I had hope for it when it began but it frequently disappointed. Now with about a decade out I can rewatch it and appreciate it for what it *is* and not what I thought or hoped it might be.

I never was concerned about its lack of arc storytelling, its absence of recurring characters, its supply of torpedoes etc. I would have been perfectly fine with the show had it been "TNG in the Delta Quadrant" but it wasn't nearly as well written or consistent as TNG was.

I wasn't crazy about most of the characters--Kim, Chakotay, Neelix, Paris, Tuvok. I loved Kate Mulgrew but Janeway was written inconsistently. The show had too much fluff. I mean here these people are in the middle of this unexplored region and instead of being filled with new fresh ideas and aliens we get holodeck episodes like Fair Haven.

It isn't a bad show and seeing the wasteland of tv shows that has been put out over the last decade it is even entertaining.
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Old November 5 2009, 09:21 PM   #200
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

flemm wrote: View Post
We are genetically engineering a virus to deal with this very problem as we speak. Non-lethal, of course, you just go to bed with cold symptoms and wake up caring about about grammar, sentence structure and capitalization.
Hmm, non lethal? I'm afraid I only donate to research projects which have at least a 60% kill ratio.
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Old November 5 2009, 11:14 PM   #201
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
I apologize. I will do my best to practice restraint in the future.

Don't, sweetheart.
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Old November 6 2009, 04:38 AM   #202
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Well I've met people who only really liked the first series (and vice versa, folks who are just fans of the newer shows - or even just DS9), but yeah, I haven't met anyone who loathed TNG. Probably because they weren't as darnedly passionate as a lot of netizens are, I'd suppose.
Well, you've met someone now.

At this point, I'd have to say that TNG is about tied with ENT for my least favorite Trek show.

I liked it at the time it was on....but it hasn't aged well at all. And not just in costumes/effects/set design. The thing that is most agonizing to watch on TNG now is that absurd 80's PC silliness....and the arrogance of the characters - assuming that everyone in the universe cannot WAIT to be just like them.

But anyway....no point in getting into anymore detail. The point is that I am not now a TNG fan at all. It grates on my nerves.

As far as the ranking of Trek shows goes for me, I'd have to go with:

1. DS9
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.
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2 & 3. VOY or TOS (depending upon the day you ask me)
.
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4 & 5 ENT or TNG (depending upon if I would rather be bored out of my mind...or annoyed to the point of nails grinding on a chalkboard).
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Old November 6 2009, 04:40 AM   #203
J. Allen
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
Kegg wrote: View Post
Well I've met people who only really liked the first series (and vice versa, folks who are just fans of the newer shows - or even just DS9), but yeah, I haven't met anyone who loathed TNG. Probably because they weren't as darnedly passionate as a lot of netizens are, I'd suppose.
Well, you've met someone now.

At this point, I'd have to say that TNG is about tied with ENT for my least favorite Trek show.

I liked it at the time it was on....but it hasn't aged well at all. And not just in costumes/effects/set design. The thing that is most agonizing to watch on TNG now is that absurd 80's PC silliness....and the arrogance of the characters - assuming that everyone in the universe cannot WAIT to be just like them.

But anyway....no point in getting into anymore detail. The point is that I am not now a TNG fan at all. It grates on my nerves.

As far as the ranking of Trek shows goes for me, I'd have to go with:

1. DS9
.
.
.
2 & 3. VOY or TOS (depending upon the day you ask me)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
4 & 5 ENT or TNG (depending upon if I would rather be bored out of my mind...or annoyed to the point of nails grinding on a chalkboard).
You have a good point there about the PC silliness. As much as I love TNG (and it is formidable), there are times when I just roll my eyes at the absurdity of some of the notions given and we're expected to just swallow it.

J.
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Old November 6 2009, 10:06 PM   #204
PKTrekGirl
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

^ Yeah...and for me, it just became too much - that whole 'flying around the galaxy, 'fixing' everyone they came in contact with - assuming immediately that they even wanted/needed fixing - it got WAY annoying. Add in the fact Nemesis was about the worst movie ever made.....and the fact that Marina Sirtus (who was by far the weakest acting link on TNG) pissed me off permanently when she said some nasty stuff about DS9....and then add in the fact that I felt it was WRONG to turn the ENT finale into the Franks/Sirtus/TNG show...and you have me building up a pretty strong hatred for that show and it's cast, at this point.

Not that I believe that everyone should agree with me, of course. I'm just sayin'.
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Old November 6 2009, 10:16 PM   #205
flemm
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
The thing that is most agonizing to watch on TNG now is that absurd 80's PC silliness....and the arrogance of the characters - assuming that everyone in the universe cannot WAIT to be just like them.
Yeah, there are some very cringe-worthy moments in TNG, to the point where I wouldn't recommend it to someone who didn't grow up with it, or at least watch it while it was on.

Despite all the silliness, the show really, really worked at the time. Its popularity is really quite mystifying, though, as it had none of the qualities you'd think a successful show would have: little humor, certainly none of the irreverant kind, no story arcs, bland characters, limited babe factor, only occasional action, extremely pretentious, I could go on.


TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Hmm, non lethal? I'm afraid I only donate to research projects which have at least a 60% kill ratio.
I will give your contact information to Luther Sloan, my contact in a rival organization. Same basic concept, higher body count

Last edited by flemm; November 6 2009 at 10:27 PM.
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Old November 7 2009, 12:14 AM   #206
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
^ Yeah...and for me, it just became too much - that whole 'flying around the galaxy, 'fixing' everyone they came in contact with - assuming immediately that they even wanted/needed fixing - it got WAY annoying. Add in the fact Nemesis was about the worst movie ever made.....and the fact that Marina Sirtus (who was by far the weakest acting link on TNG) pissed me off permanently when she said some nasty stuff about DS9....and then add in the fact that I felt it was WRONG to turn the ENT finale into the Franks/Sirtus/TNG show...and you have me building up a pretty strong hatred for that show and it's cast, at this point.

Not that I believe that everyone should agree with me, of course. I'm just sayin'.
For some reason I ended up liking Nemesis. But I tend to approach that particular movie more as a good excuse to see stuff go boom.

I do agree with the part about Picard thinking he was better than everybody else, that he was Mr. Enlightened 24th Century and everyone else who did not fit his particular secular humanist mould must be some sort of backwards savage.

The ENT finale was not good, either.

But that said, a lot of why I don't like TNG is also personal. I changed a lot and I simply don't see it with the same eyes I used to. Which is a bit of a shame because I remember the wonder I first felt when the show was on the air.
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Old November 7 2009, 12:24 AM   #207
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
^ Yeah...and for me, it just became too much - that whole 'flying around the galaxy, 'fixing' everyone they came in contact with - assuming immediately that they even wanted/needed fixing - it got WAY annoying. Add in the fact Nemesis was about the worst movie ever made.....and the fact that Marina Sirtus (who was by far the weakest acting link on TNG) pissed me off permanently when she said some nasty stuff about DS9....and then add in the fact that I felt it was WRONG to turn the ENT finale into the Franks/Sirtus/TNG show...and you have me building up a pretty strong hatred for that show and it's cast, at this point.

Not that I believe that everyone should agree with me, of course. I'm just sayin'.
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
^ Yeah...and for me, it just became too much - that whole 'flying around the galaxy, 'fixing' everyone they came in contact with - assuming immediately that they even wanted/needed fixing - it got WAY annoying. Add in the fact Nemesis was about the worst movie ever made.....and the fact that Marina Sirtus (who was by far the weakest acting link on TNG) pissed me off permanently when she said some nasty stuff about DS9....and then add in the fact that I felt it was WRONG to turn the ENT finale into the Franks/Sirtus/TNG show...and you have me building up a pretty strong hatred for that show and it's cast, at this point.

Not that I believe that everyone should agree with me, of course. I'm just sayin'.
For some reason I ended up liking Nemesis. But I tend to approach that particular movie more as a good excuse to see stuff go boom.

I do agree with the part about Picard thinking he was better than everybody else, that he was Mr. Enlightened 24th Century and everyone else who did not fit his particular secular humanist mould must be some sort of backwards savage.

The ENT finale was not good, either.

But that said, a lot of why I don't like TNG is also personal. I changed a lot and I simply don't see it with the same eyes I used to. Which is a bit of a shame because I remember the wonder I first felt when the show was on the air.
I think we all felt that wonder at some point. I was only 7 when it first premiered, and I was enthralled. All I had up to that point had been 20 year old reruns of a show that I greatly loved, and the excitement, oh MAN the excitement when they were doing the 10 day countdown. Oh, I feel goosebumps now thinking about it. I remember yelling to my mom in the kitchen (I was in the living room of our little one bedroom apartment) and I started jumping up and down saying "There's a new Star Trek! There's a new Star Trek!".

Oh it was so exciting! Seeing a new crew, new adventures, oh, and the ship. I fell in love with the Enterprise D the moment I laid eyes on her. Oh, you'll have to excuse me, I'm starting to tear up, dammit.

J.
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Old November 7 2009, 12:46 AM   #208
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

Well, yes...the wonder was there at one time - no doubt of that!

When TNG first came on, I was thrilled. After all, it was new Star Trek....and I was of that generation who grew up coming home from school to watch TOS reruns. I even went to see TMP in the theater! In short...although we were all a little ambivalent about anyone trying to step into Shatner's shoes...we were so DESPERATE for new Trek that we will willing to give it a try.

And it worked....while it was on.

But as I said a few posts back - TNG has not aged well. In fact, giant mechanical buttons and bridge lights aside, I don't think it has aged as well as TOS.

Certainly the stories have not aged as well.

The great thing about TOS is, despite the cheesiness of the aliens sometimes...despite the dated sets...the STORIES are still relevant and interesting. Maybe it was because at the time TOS was made, a cultural revolution was underway. It was a time of great social change...and many of the issues that involve great social change usually come back around later and because of that, are almost perpetually relevant.

In contrast, TNG, which also suffers from cheesiness of sets, costumes, etc....additionally suffers from painfully dated storylines, which are very 80's "we are evolved humanity - aren't we just great?" in flavor. That whole smug "All About Me" mentality that permeated that time period.

The thing that dates the show more than anything else is that smug superiority. I can handle dated costumes and hair styles if the stories are interesting and relevant....but not the other way 'round.

We didn't see the 80's smug superiority as a problem during that first run of TNG...because we were LIVING it. That was what that decade was about. It is only now, looking at those episodes through the filter of 20 years of discovering the hard way that we are, in fact, not all that 'evolved' after all...that we are able to see how silly (and sometimes even offensive) it all looks and sounds. So smug. So arrogant......and so painfully naive and cliche.
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Old November 7 2009, 12:53 AM   #209
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

flemm wrote: View Post
I will give your contact information to Luther Sloan, my contact in a rival organization. Same basic concept, higher body count
Sloan? No need to give him my details, he knows about me well enough. I'm his supervisor, after all.
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Old November 7 2009, 01:22 AM   #210
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Re: How do Niners feel about Voyager?

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
We didn't see the 80's smug superiority as a problem during that first run of TNG...because we were LIVING it. That was what that decade was about. It is only now, looking at those episodes through the filter of 20 years of discovering the hard way that we are, in fact, not all that 'evolved' after all...that we are able to see how silly (and sometimes even offensive) it all looks and sounds. So smug. So arrogant......and so painfully naive and cliche.
I think that's a good point. I was already an adult when TNG first aired, and while I liked the show a lot after the first couple of seasons, this is the reason I never loved it. Even at the time, I didn't find PC very palatable. I haven't seen many episodes since the original run, but each time through the years that I have it seems more and more dated. Still, it was thrilling to have a new Trek, and I was even happier when I heard they'd be doing DS9. Hell, I was happy when I found out about Voyager, until I slogged through four seasons of it and found myself having to say to Hell with this crap.
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