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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 2 2009, 07:10 AM   #1
mysticgeek
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No Quark to Help Vic??

I just watched Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang again and was thinking ... Why wouldn't Quark have been brought in on their whole operation to steal the money from Frankie Eyes?
He is the ultimate in devious scam operations like the one they pulled off. Not to mention it is his holosuites...
Also, isn't it odd that he wouldn't know what is going on the entire time? Remember when he says to Mourn "I'm telling you Mourn, something is going on in Vic's that we don't know about."
Do you think it was the writers thinking Quark would be too obvious for it and they didn't want to include him as a focus for too many episodes or what?
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Old November 2 2009, 07:48 AM   #2
Jono
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

I didn't think Quark was allowed to monitor his holosuites, so him not knowing what is going on isn't surprising.

As for not asking for his help, it is possible they didn't think he would help or that getting his help would be too costly. Vic's program was probably limiting Quark's profits giving it was running 26/7. It takes out an entire holosuite with a program that has a very limited appeal.
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Old November 2 2009, 03:56 PM   #3
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

There's no profit in it, only potential loss. Vic's bar took guests away from Quark's, why would a Ferengi help his competition? Which is probably why they didn't tell him.
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Old November 2 2009, 06:00 PM   #4
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

I saw in a fanfic a very smart answer to this, though, from a Ferengi perspective. (I forget who wrote it, but it's posted at Ad Astra if someone wants to go digging to find the author to credit.)

Quark should've assessed a cover charge to anyone wanting to get into Vic's.
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Old November 3 2009, 10:06 PM   #5
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

I didn't think Quark was allowed to monitor his holosuites, so him not knowing what is going on isn't surprising.
Since when has Quark stopped on the threshold of the "Allowed ends here" exit?

Also, since when has he viewed holotainment as anything more than a source of profit? As far as he cares, Vic isn't real, or worth any hassle. UFP law also seems to lag behind in admitting that sentient holograms might be people, so Sisko probably couldn't force Quark to care.

Quark's angle here should be that Bashir has to reimburse him for damaging the holosuite, locking it on a mode that is in violation of whatever contract Quark and Bashir had on the use of Vic's. Bashir, or Felix, who programmed in the harmful mode. Probably Quark would be within his rights to boot the program and wipe Vic's memory... A good enough reason not to involve him in any way.

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Old November 3 2009, 10:18 PM   #6
flemm
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

Some good "in universe" answers above, but I don't think any of them are strong enough to preclude his involvement, had the writers wanted to bring him into the episode.

Why didn't they? I really don't know. I could hasard a guess, which is that they probably thought that would complicate the episode unnecessarily, as it would bring in a second character whose involvement is problematic and would need to be justified in an already convoluted script. Sisko's involvement is already a sub-plot, and they probably thought they couldn't handle another.

Quark is marginalized at the end of DS9, especially season 7, one of the main criticisms I have of that season, which I thoroughly enjoy overall.

Part of this is the fascination with Vic and Vic's, which were really never worth the attention they received in my view, certainly not at the expense of Quark and Quark's.

Quark's is the center of life on DS9 throughout most of the show's run, and it is one of the defining elements of the station's ambiance, really the most important one. Vic's had the allure of novelty, but in retrospect it seems silly that so much of the last season is spent in a holodeck cabaret, including the final toast in WYLB, which is especially unfortunate.
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Old November 3 2009, 11:54 PM   #7
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

Timo wrote: View Post
I didn't think Quark was allowed to monitor his holosuites, so him not knowing what is going on isn't surprising.
Since when has Quark stopped on the threshold of the "Allowed ends here" exit?

Also, since when has he viewed holotainment as anything more than a source of profit? As far as he cares, Vic isn't real, or worth any hassle. UFP law also seems to lag behind in admitting that sentient holograms might be people, so Sisko probably couldn't force Quark to care.
That's why I like my "cover charge" idea. I'm sure he'd be familiar with that from exclusive clubs on Ferenginar as well as old Earth, and it would be a way to recoup his losses every time someone goes into Vic's. The way I'd do it (and I'd have the Federation watch this to make sure it doesn't go over the line) is have Quark become Vic's de facto landlord, who gets the cover charge as his reimbursement for Vic's living in there.
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Old November 4 2009, 11:25 AM   #8
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
There's no profit in it, only potential loss. Vic's bar took guests away from Quark's, why would a Ferengi help his competition? Which is probably why they didn't tell him.
Exactly. Wasn't it actually said in the episode that Quark did see Vic as his competition?
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Old November 4 2009, 11:42 AM   #9
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

Yes, that's the very argument Odo used for shooting down Ezri's idea of drafting Quark.

Although Odo probably had plenty of other reasons to keep Quark out of it, too. Why our heroes listened to Odo here, rather than letting Sisko decide, is unclear - but we could argue that the majority of people in that cabal were opposed to Quark to begin with.

Of course, Dax would have her usual sympathies... Odo would be the one wild card, because he was the other one who liked and respected Quark. If he was against, then Dax' vote wouldn't carry the day. Especially since this was the new and (in terms of social influence within this pack) weaker Dax...

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Old November 5 2009, 04:58 AM   #10
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

@Flemm: Great point. They definitely marginalize Quark toward the end of Season 7. The family of characters includes Quark so that is why I find it odd they wouldn't have included him in the operation to save Vic's establishment.
He had some time on screen in "Take me out to the holosuite" ... "The Siege of AR 588" and "The Emperors New Cloak" but those were one off episodes that didn't deal with the ending of the show. Well... Siege of AR-588 did indirectly I guess.
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Old November 6 2009, 07:15 AM   #11
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

In the episode Badda-Bing Badda-Bang there's a scene where all of them are gathered in Vic's hotel room-(the holosuite) trying to think of who could be the big roller in their plan. Kassidy suggested Worf. Kira said He'd never agree to it. Then Ezri suggested Quark. Odo said he wasn't sure Quark woul help. That Quark thinks of Vic as competition.
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Old November 7 2009, 02:34 AM   #12
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

While that is true... it still seems odd that Quark wouldn't have heard what was going on. When he told Morn "I'm telling you Mourn, something is going on in Vic's that we don't know about."I just don't buy it at all. He hears about EVERYTHING that takes place on the station... and you'd especially think he would know in his own holosuites ... whether he is suppose to keep them private or not.
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Old January 1 2010, 09:36 PM   #13
Navaros
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
There's no profit in it, only potential loss. Vic's bar took guests away from Quark's, why would a Ferengi help his competition? Which is probably why they didn't tell him.
I know they say that on the show, but that is really bad writing.

There is no way Quark would tolerate losing profits from Vic. Quark owns Vic and the holosuite Vic operates in.

That's one of those lines that really irks me because the writers know how to, and usually do, write much better than that.

It is indeed ridiculous that Quark didn't help Vic. That too is another case of really bad writing.

So too is the Sisko still harboring sour grapes about racism from hundreds of years ago.

I guess I will say that this episode has achieved a trifecta of really bad writing.
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Old January 1 2010, 10:16 PM   #14
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: No Quark to Help Vic??

Navaros wrote: View Post
There is no way Quark would tolerate losing profits from Vic. Quark owns Vic and the holosuite Vic operates in.
Right...and this is why I think that Quark has GOT to be charging a cover on anyone who enters Vic's. I can't imagine him accepting the deal to run Vic's program 26-7 without there being SOME recompense for the fact that he has one holosuite permanently unavailable to customers with different preferences.
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