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Old October 20 2009, 08:59 PM   #76
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Nocturnus of Bored wrote: View Post
He's like the Diet Coke of racists then. Swell.
If by that you mean he has zero racism calories but gets slapped with the racist label all the same, you're right.

This guy just isn't a racist, as much as most people seem to like to brand him as one.
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Old October 20 2009, 10:21 PM   #77
John Picard
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Nocturnus of Bored wrote: View Post
He's like the Diet Coke of racists then. Swell.
If by that you mean he has zero racism calories but gets slapped with the racist label all the same, you're right.

This guy just isn't a racist, as much as most people seem to like to brand him as one.
A racist and a separatist are pretty much equals. He refuses to marry people of separate races because it's his opinion that the children will suffer.
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Old October 20 2009, 10:23 PM   #78
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

F. Kreuger wrote: View Post
JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Nocturnus of Bored wrote: View Post
He's like the Diet Coke of racists then. Swell.
If by that you mean he has zero racism calories but gets slapped with the racist label all the same, you're right.

This guy just isn't a racist, as much as most people seem to like to brand him as one.
A racist and a separatist are pretty much equals. He refuses to marry people of separate races because it's his opinion that the children will suffer.
Yes, he does. And that doesn't make him a racist. While the effect might be the same, his motivations differ greatly from those of a true racist.
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Old October 21 2009, 12:05 AM   #79
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Juan needs to look up the words "segregation" and "Jim Crow," and maybe then he'll understand that segregation, especial de jure, is racism at its utmost. Love the "diet Coke" label Locutus came up with to describe Bardwell's brand of racism, but I think a better label would be "New Coke" racism, the kind of supposed well-meaning, "Hey, I'm just thinking of the kids of such a union" rationale that still equals racism. If a traffic light turns red, it's red, not purple. -- RR
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Old October 21 2009, 05:34 AM   #80
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

*reminds himself not to get married in Arkansas* Wonder what he thinks of Asians and white chicks?
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Old October 21 2009, 05:52 AM   #81
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Red Rum wrote: View Post
Juan needs to look up the words "segregation" and "Jim Crow," and maybe then he'll understand that segregation, especial de jure, is racism at its utmost. Love the "diet Coke" label Locutus came up with to describe Bardwell's brand of racism, but I think a better label would be "New Coke" racism, the kind of supposed well-meaning, "Hey, I'm just thinking of the kids of such a union" rationale that still equals racism. If a traffic light turns red, it's red, not purple. -- RR
I wish you'd stop implying that I don't understand these things. I do. Apparently better than you do.
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Old October 21 2009, 03:30 PM   #82
John Picard
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Red Rum wrote: View Post
Juan needs to look up the words "segregation" and "Jim Crow," and maybe then he'll understand that segregation, especial de jure, is racism at its utmost. Love the "diet Coke" label Locutus came up with to describe Bardwell's brand of racism, but I think a better label would be "New Coke" racism, the kind of supposed well-meaning, "Hey, I'm just thinking of the kids of such a union" rationale that still equals racism. If a traffic light turns red, it's red, not purple. -- RR
I wish you'd stop implying that I don't understand these things. I do. Apparently better than you do.
Based on your argumentative responses, you don't.
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Old October 21 2009, 06:16 PM   #83
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

I think some people need to take their 'bullshit detectors' into the shop for some repairs and a service check.

"No no, I'm only doing this for the kids" is a common cover excuse. Nobody wants to sound like a racist. There comes a point where you evaluate based on people's actions and not their excuses.
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Old October 21 2009, 06:23 PM   #84
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Stone_Cold_Sisko wrote: View Post
"No no, I'm only doing this for the kids" is a common cover excuse.
Just what I was thinking. It's also their current "cover" against gay marriage- "Oh well, we don't hate them all that much any more, but we don't want to send the wrong message to the children."
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Old October 21 2009, 08:55 PM   #85
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Just because it is a popular cover does not mean it cannot be an honest, if misguided motivation.
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Old October 21 2009, 09:57 PM   #86
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Red Rum wrote: View Post
Juan needs to look up the words "segregation" and "Jim Crow," and maybe then he'll understand that segregation, especial de jure, is racism at its utmost. Love the "diet Coke" label Locutus came up with to describe Bardwell's brand of racism, but I think a better label would be "New Coke" racism, the kind of supposed well-meaning, "Hey, I'm just thinking of the kids of such a union" rationale that still equals racism. If a traffic light turns red, it's red, not purple. -- RR
I wish you'd stop implying that I don't understand these things. I do. Apparently better than you do.
You're a smart guy and I believe you completely understand these things, but that you continuously choose to defend the opposite of what everyone else is saying because that plays to your "internet rebel" shtick. There's nothing wrong with defending an unpopular opinion in and of itself, except when you toss out all logic and common sense in the process just for the sake of being contrary.
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Old October 21 2009, 10:05 PM   #87
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Nocturnus of Bored wrote: View Post
JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Red Rum wrote: View Post
Juan needs to look up the words "segregation" and "Jim Crow," and maybe then he'll understand that segregation, especial de jure, is racism at its utmost. Love the "diet Coke" label Locutus came up with to describe Bardwell's brand of racism, but I think a better label would be "New Coke" racism, the kind of supposed well-meaning, "Hey, I'm just thinking of the kids of such a union" rationale that still equals racism. If a traffic light turns red, it's red, not purple. -- RR
I wish you'd stop implying that I don't understand these things. I do. Apparently better than you do.
You're a smart guy and I believe you completely understand these things, but that you continuously choose to defend the opposite of what everyone else is saying because that plays to your "internet rebel" shtick. There's nothing wrong with defending an unpopular opinion in and of itself, except when you toss out all logic and common sense in the process just for the sake of being contrary.
...which I am not doing here. My logic tells me that according to this guy's stated beliefs, racism is not his motivation for doing as he did, and so it is unfair to brand him a racist when there are so many others out there who truly deserve it. Often people who've done less but said and believed more.

I have repeatedly conceded that it is possible that he is in fact a racist and simply hiding his beliefs by lying about his motivations, but I see nothing to suggest that. Show me where common sense and logic dictate that this man must be a racist and I'll happily eat my words.
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Old October 21 2009, 10:16 PM   #88
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
according to this guy's stated beliefs, racism is not his motivation
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

Because a racist would never lie, of course. Oh no, never.

The simple fact is this: What this guy says is irrelevant. It's his actions that brand him as a racist. You can't get around what you do, by saying something different.
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Old October 21 2009, 10:25 PM   #89
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Because a racist would never lie, of course. Oh no, never.
Have you just flat-out ignored every instance in which I've conceded he may be lying about his motivations?

The simple fact is this: What this guy says is irrelevant. It's his actions that brand him as a racist. You can't get around what you do, by saying something different.
Motivations are very relevant to me. Yes, on the surface his actions do appear to be those of a racist, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has racism in his heart. To me why someone does a thing has more bearing on what kind of person they are than what they do.
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Old October 21 2009, 10:39 PM   #90
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Show me where common sense and logic dictate that this man must be a racist and I'll happily eat my words.
Must be a racist? No (he'd have to be pretty deluded in his thinking to believe advocating segregation isn't directly related to racism though). Most likely a racist? Yes. Good enough for me as a poster on TrekBBS with no influence over this guy's life to make a judgment call on him being a racist? Absolutely.

I already laid out the common sense and logical arguments in my previous post, but here they are again:

1) If he is doing it to protect the couple's potential children from adversity, why does he not have other restrictions on marriage, such as criminal records, frequent unemployment, inheritable medical conditions, economic status, uncommon religious beliefs, alcoholism and drug use, domestic violence, or any number of other things kids could possibly be troubled by? Why is interracial marriage exclusively a dealbreaker?

2) If he genuinely believes it represents an extremely difficult issue for children to overcome, why does he offer assistance to the couples in finding another Justice of the Peace who will perform the ceremony? That points to not actually being concerned about the kids, and instead having a personal aversion to interracial marriage and not wanting to perform the ceremony himself, much like a minister saying "I won't perform your gay marriage, but here are some directions to the Unitarian Church down the street." If you truly believe it's damaging, then shouldn't you be against it completely, and not just against performing it yourself? That just means you personally find it icky.

3) Why does he assume that all marriages are going to result in children? Shouldn't a "Do you plan on / are you capable of having biological children or are you planning on adopting a child of a different race?" query be part of his opening questionnaire to the couple before deciding on performing the ceremony? Why does he still oppose interracial marriage when children aren't an issue?

The Magic 8-Ball says "Signs point to yes" when you ask if he's a racist.
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