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Old November 6 2009, 03:57 PM   #136
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

John Picard wrote: View Post
JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Even so, why am I the subject here? This thread is about the actions and motivations of a person very far removed from me. If you want to get personal, why not take it to TNZ where the same topic is under discussion?

Is my stance on this and other controversial matters on which I didn't conform with the majority REALLY that offensive?
It's because you're wrong and want to argue semantics that aren't there. The bottom line is that we've all tried to explain it to you; however, we cannot understand it for you.
It has nothing to do with semantics whatsoever. Your position that Bardwell is a racist has no direct evidence in support of it and is based entirely on suppositions, stereotypes, and equating his words and actions with those of true racists on the basis of surface similarities.

You don't need to explain anything to me John Picard. I understand your position perfectly - apparently better than you do. You think he is a racist because he did something a racist might do, said things a racist might say (if he wanted to deny being a racist), and thus assume he is lying about his intentions while inventing a whole list of supposed "true" motivations to attribute to him.

I get it, I just don't go along with it. Your evidence is purely circumstantial and suppositional. Sure, he's a racist if you dismiss everything he said about his beliefs and motivations and invent your own. Anyone would be.

So tell me... what is it that you think I don't understand?
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Old November 6 2009, 04:06 PM   #137
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Even so, why am I the subject here? This thread is about the actions and motivations of a person very far removed from me. If you want to get personal, why not take it to TNZ where the same topic is under discussion?

Is my stance on this and other controversial matters on which I didn't conform with the majority REALLY that offensive?
You made it about yourself and your supposedly superior standards for judging people over the rest of us pages ago.

You just smugly commented on laughing and shaking your head at the people who disagree with you in the post right before mine, so you can drop the innocence routine. You can't place yourself above everyone else and then expect people not to question your reasoning.
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Old November 6 2009, 04:09 PM   #138
John Picard
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
John Picard wrote: View Post
JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Even so, why am I the subject here? This thread is about the actions and motivations of a person very far removed from me. If you want to get personal, why not take it to TNZ where the same topic is under discussion?

Is my stance on this and other controversial matters on which I didn't conform with the majority REALLY that offensive?
It's because you're wrong and want to argue semantics that aren't there. The bottom line is that we've all tried to explain it to you; however, we cannot understand it for you.
It has nothing to do with semantics whatsoever. Your position that Bardwell is a racist has no direct evidence in support of it and is based entirely on suppositions, stereotypes, and equating his words and actions with those of true racists on the basis of surface similarities.

You don't need to explain anything to me John Picard. I understand your position perfectly - apparently better than you do. You think he is a racist because he did something a racist might do, said things a racist might say (if he wanted to deny being a racist), and thus assume he is lying about his intentions while inventing a whole list of supposed "true" motivations to attribute to him.

I get it, I just don't go along with it. Your evidence is purely circumstantial and suppositional. Sure, he's a racist if you dismiss everything he said about his beliefs and motivations and invent your own. Anyone would be.

So tell me... what is it that you think I don't understand?
As has been pointed out several posts back, Juan, the Judge stated that he, "does not believe in mixing the races in this way" but then goes out of the way to state how he "has piles of black friends".

Face it: you're the lone voice of dissent in this entire discussion. And, as Locutus has pointed out, you're smug and believe you have superior reasoning abilities over all who disagree with you.
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Old November 6 2009, 04:10 PM   #139
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Even so, why am I the subject here? This thread is about the actions and motivations of a person very far removed from me. If you want to get personal, why not take it to TNZ where the same topic is under discussion?

Is my stance on this and other controversial matters on which I didn't conform with the majority REALLY that offensive?
You made it about yourself and your supposedly superior standards for judging people over the rest of us pages ago.

You just smugly commented on laughing and shaking your head at the people who disagree with you in the post right before mine, so you can drop the innocence routine. You can't place yourself above everyone else and then expect people not to question your reasoning.
Question my reasoning all you like. I welcome it. Calling me naive and "Captain Contrary", though, is a blatant personal jab. As for my own comments - my laughing and shaking my head was at arguements and reasoning, not posters themselves. There are many posters I like and greatly respect whom I find myself at odds with in this and other debates - yourself included.

John Picard wrote: View Post
As has been pointed out several posts back, Juan, the Judge stated that he, "does not believe in mixing the races in this way" but then goes out of the way to state how he "has piles of black friends".
Right... and that proves what exactly?

Face it: you're the lone voice of dissent in this entire discussion.
Actually several people have agreed with my position on this topic in TNZ, but that hardly matters. Being the only guy with the right answer isn't anything new to me.

And, as Locutus has pointed out, you're smug and believe you have superior reasoning abilities over all who disagree with you.
Not so. There are plenty of people who disagree with me on various topics who can easily match my powers of reasoning. On this particular topic, though, I think those who disagree with me based on the lines of thought I outlined in my last post are coming to some very shaky conclusions based on suppositions.

You cannot deny that your entire case for this guy conclusively being a racist hinges on dismissing everything he's said as a lie and writing in your own version of his motivations.
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Last edited by JuanBolio; November 6 2009 at 04:21 PM.
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Old November 6 2009, 04:16 PM   #140
Ward Fowler
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
None of that means he has racial hatred or ideas of superiority in his heart. All those ideas are still pure conjecture. You want to extrapolate a mountain out of a molehill? Be my guest. I'll sit here laughing at you and shaking my head.
I have no intention of wasting my time arguing with you so laugh all you'd like. I just wanted to point out how easy it was to show that your argument is intellectually and morally bankrupt. Please proceed with making a fool of yourself.
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Old November 6 2009, 04:26 PM   #141
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Ward Fowler wrote: View Post
JuanBolio wrote: View Post
None of that means he has racial hatred or ideas of superiority in his heart. All those ideas are still pure conjecture. You want to extrapolate a mountain out of a molehill? Be my guest. I'll sit here laughing at you and shaking my head.
I have no intention of wasting my time arguing with you so laugh all you'd like. I just wanted to point out how easy it was to show that your argument is intellectually and morally bankrupt. Please proceed with making a fool of yourself.
You've done nothing of the sort, but please do so now. How, pray tell, is my argument intellectually and morally bankrupt? Intellectually my reasoning is as sound as possible. Morally I oppose Bardwell's actions, along with racism and discriminatory action of all kinds.

Why not just take the next step and call me a racist myself? By your line of so-caled reasoning it'd be easy. I'll even make it easier for you - I have had black friends. I have had sexual relations with a black female. I happily share restaurant space with black people. I allow black people to use my bathroom. I acknowledge that blacks and people of mixed race in America often face harassment, discrimination, and other shameful hardships based on nothing more than the color of their skin.

Pretty racist, huh? I should be banned.
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Old November 6 2009, 05:45 PM   #142
Gep Malakai
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Right... and that proves what exactly?
You've got be kidding me.
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Old November 6 2009, 05:55 PM   #143
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
JuanBolio wrote: View Post
Right... and that proves what exactly?
You've got be kidding me.
Not at all. It proves nothing - absolutely nothing - about racism. Is it suggestive of it? Perhaps, but taken with his other statements I don't think it amounts to much of anything at all.

But go ahead. Tell me how he is shown conclusively to be a racist by the highlighted statements. You might just succeed in convincing me that I am in error.
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Old November 6 2009, 05:57 PM   #144
MarianLH
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
With every debate I fluctuate between thinking you are either the most incredibly naive person on Earth or monumentally fucking with everyone in your quest to earn the title of Captain Contrary. Neither option carries much in the way of credibility though.

In other words, it's not his motives that matter, but the consequences of his actions.


Marian
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Old November 6 2009, 10:28 PM   #145
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Kind of late to this party, but anyone who has spent actual time in the southern states should know how racist it still is. My wife is from a city of 10,000 in south Arkansas and the stuff I have to listen to every single time about "blacks" and "mexicans" makes me so mad just keeping my mouth shut is monumental effort of self restraint. But they don't know any better. I mean they watch Fox News 10 hours a day and think Obama is a muslin terrorist who wants to eat their kids. What can you do about these people?

Why don't we just let them have their few states and just ignore them?
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Old November 7 2009, 12:53 AM   #146
RJDiogenes
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
since it is indeed possible for someone to think and act as he did and not be a racist - a point which few here seem able to accept.
That's because it's impossible for what you're saying to be true. Whether he's motivated by hatred or ideas of superiority is debatable, but the racism is not.
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Old November 7 2009, 01:17 AM   #147
Trekker4747
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

He made a decision and prevented two people from exercising their rights based on race.

That's the definition of "racist."

He doesn't have to hate black people to be a racist, all that matters -to me at least- is that he made a decision to stop two people from exercising their rights and his only reason for doing so was because of their race.
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Old November 7 2009, 02:39 PM   #148
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
That's because it's impossible for what you're saying to be true. Whether he's motivated by hatred or ideas of superiority is debatable, but the racism is not.
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
He made a decision and prevented two people from exercising their rights based on race.

That's the definition of "racist."

He doesn't have to hate black people to be a racist, all that matters -to me at least- is that he made a decision to stop two people from exercising their rights and his only reason for doing so was because of their race.
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Old November 7 2009, 08:47 PM   #149
RJDiogenes
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

It's not opinion. His actions racially motivated. Aside from the fact that race doesn't even exist, his actions were based on a belief in it, therefore he was motivated by racism.
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Old November 7 2009, 08:49 PM   #150
JuanBolio
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Re: Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Segregationism does not necessarily beget racism, my friend. Your conclusions on this matter are based solely on supposition, and/or a misunderstanding of what racism entails. He might be a racist, but I see no direct evidence of this.
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