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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 28 2013, 04:19 AM   #16
CybexAl
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

One of the biggest errors a writer can make is killing a character to fulfill a plot point in a story. Especially when that character has so much potential for future stories. K'Ehleyr was certainly one of these characters. The same could be said for Duras. Killing him at that time meant the Klingon arc peaked too early. It would have been much more interesting to have some of Duras's significant minions meet their end instead with him escaping and Chancellor Gowron then having to fight a greater threat alongside the Federation. Considering their capacity for duplicity, why would any of Duras's followers allow Worf the opportunity to avenge his mate's death when they were all complicit, with the Romulans, in trying to overthrow the empire? They would have ganged up on him and done him in. The story, as played out, does not follow its own inherent logic.
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Old July 28 2013, 04:35 AM   #17
R. Star
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

Sometimes people die. I have no issue with that. I do wonder how Duras expected to get away with walking into her quarters, killing her, and walking out. He'd have left enough of his DNA for today's CSI to figure out he was in those quarters and it was him, especially with K'heylar's computer looking up his info and crimes. Yet this master of subtlety was somehow going to rule the Klingon Empire?
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Old July 28 2013, 03:34 PM   #18
Forbin
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

I think two of TNG's greatest missed opportunities were both Suzi Plakson. Having her as frequenty recurring characters K'Ehleyr and Dr. Selar would have been wonderful.
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Old July 29 2013, 08:14 PM   #19
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

Agreed with that, Forbin. I think having K'Ehleyr alive, either on the Enterprise or not, would have made for good story potential. On the Enterprise, not married to Worf but not exactly not in a relationship with him either, would have been an interesting exploration.

And having watched "The Schizoid Man" a few days back, I wholeheartedly agree that a Vulcan doctor is hilarious. I found myself wondering about the ability of a Vulcan physician to have a bedside manner. The manner of fact way she gives Graves the news is outstanding... but probably the best for a man like Graves.
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Old July 29 2013, 09:33 PM   #20
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

I do wonder how Duras expected to get away with
...I wonder whether he expected Worf to come after him or not. He certainly had no real problem engaging in a duel with Worf, and may well have been counting on such a thing, as the death of Worf would be a necessary second step to stop Starfleet, and thus the Council, from learning the whole truth. He apparently caught K'ehleyr before she could divulge any secrets; he could also count on Worf rushing to avenge the death before reporting anything.

Duras would have nothing to fear from Federation justice as such. His qualifications for leading the Empire would not be brought to question by his killing of the half-breed and her weak lover, either. Indeed, all the better if the Federation is enraged, as this puts an end to the nonsense of Picard being allowed to interfere in Klingon affairs.

They would have ganged up on him and done him in.
Why hurry? Plenty of time for that after Worf has tired himself in the fight with Duras...

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Old July 29 2013, 10:58 PM   #21
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

If it weren't for the murder of K'elyhr it wouldn't have made sense for Worf to kill Duras.

It does seem odd that Duras thought he could get away with it. The way the computer can track everybody's life signs all the time it's a wonder there isn't some kind of emergency system to transport somebody automatically to sickbay and put them in stasis whenever it detects they're on the verge of death.

Maybe Duras just figured he had diplomatic immunity so as long as he got off the ship before anyone found her there's nothing they could do.
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Old July 29 2013, 11:04 PM   #22
Praetor
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

It has to be the diplomatic immunity angle. Either that, or Duras is just stupid. Which, actually...
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Old July 29 2013, 11:26 PM   #23
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
... had K'Ehleyr not been killed, Worf would not have killed Duras ...
Ahhh, but what if Duras had murdered Worf, then K'eheyr would seek revenge by challaging Duras to the duel, and then of course killing him.

At the end of the episode, Picard would invite K'Ehleyr to his ready room and explain that her skills would be of great service on the Federation Flagship.

After K'Ehleyr's experiences in Parallels, she and Deanna Troi would begin a passionate affair.

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Old July 30 2013, 03:19 AM   #24
R. Star
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
... had K'Ehleyr not been killed, Worf would not have killed Duras ...
Ahhh, but what if Duras had murdered Worf, then K'eheyr would seek revenge by challaging Duras to the duel, and then of course killing him.

At the end of the episode, Picard would invite K'Ehleyr to his ready room and explain that her skills would be of great service on the Federation Flagship.

After K'Ehleyr's experiences in Parallels, she and Deanna Troi would begin a passionate affair.

You may commence writing this fanfic.
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Old July 30 2013, 10:38 PM   #25
Praetor
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

Decon scene. And... go!
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Old July 30 2013, 11:06 PM   #26
Sran
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yet this master of subtlety was somehow going to rule the Klingon Empire?
Ironic that he spent so much time working with the Romulans. Apparently, he learned nothing from them in terms of working behind the scenes or not drawing attention to himself.

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Old July 31 2013, 03:09 AM   #27
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

Praetor wrote: View Post
Decon scene. And... go!
Let's just keep that silly Decon stuff on ENT only.
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Old August 2 2013, 01:15 AM   #28
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

CybexAl wrote: View Post
One of the biggest errors a writer can make is killing a character to fulfill a plot point in a story. Especially when that character has so much potential for future stories. K'Ehleyr was certainly one of these characters. The same could be said for Duras. Killing him at that time meant the Klingon arc peaked too early. It would have been much more interesting to have some of Duras's significant minions meet their end instead with him escaping and Chancellor Gowron then having to fight a greater threat alongside the Federation. Considering their capacity for duplicity, why would any of Duras's followers allow Worf the opportunity to avenge his mate's death when they were all complicit, with the Romulans, in trying to overthrow the empire? They would have ganged up on him and done him in. The story, as played out, does not follow its own inherent logic.
If it weren't for the death of Duras Reunion would have been a pretty average, forgettable episode.

I would make the counterargument to this that character death should occur when it's logical to the story. So many long running shows wrap characters in an overly obvious 'Bubble of protection', and when that happens, any further jeopardy that character is in gets neutralized.

Another saying I've heard writers throw around 'You have to be willing to kill your baby'. If you're not willing to kill off good characters now and then, your entire story loses tension.
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Old August 2 2013, 07:00 PM   #29
Dale Sams
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
... had K'Ehleyr not been killed, Worf would not have killed Duras ...
Ahhh, but what if Duras had murdered Worf, then K'eheyr would seek revenge by challaging Duras to the duel, and then of course killing him.

At the end of the episode, Picard would invite K'Ehleyr to his ready room and explain that her skills would be of great service on the Federation Flagship.

After K'Ehleyr's experiences in Parallels, she and Deanna Troi would begin a passionate affair.

Very similar to *my* ending of ST: Generations. Picard is killed. Kirk becomes Captain of the Ent-E.
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Old August 7 2013, 07:11 AM   #30
CybexAl
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Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
CybexAl wrote: View Post
One of the biggest errors a writer can make is killing a character to fulfill a plot point in a story. Especially when that character has so much potential for future stories. K'Ehleyr was certainly one of these characters. The same could be said for Duras. Killing him at that time meant the Klingon arc peaked too early. It would have been much more interesting to have some of Duras's significant minions meet their end instead with him escaping and Chancellor Gowron then having to fight a greater threat alongside the Federation. Considering their capacity for duplicity, why would any of Duras's followers allow Worf the opportunity to avenge his mate's death when they were all complicit, with the Romulans, in trying to overthrow the empire? They would have ganged up on him and done him in. The story, as played out, does not follow its own inherent logic.
If it weren't for the death of Duras Reunion would have been a pretty average, forgettable episode.

I would make the counterargument to this that character death should occur when it's logical to the story. So many long running shows wrap characters in an overly obvious 'Bubble of protection', and when that happens, any further jeopardy that character is in gets neutralized.

Another saying I've heard writers throw around 'You have to be willing to kill your baby'. If you're not willing to kill off good characters now and then, your entire story loses tension.
This argument is silly because you can make that rule about any of the main characters in the series. What sells good TV are the compelling characters that work and also enhance the ongoing story. So many times in all of the series main characters, including the Captains, have faced points where it would have been logical for the story to kill them off to make the strongest of points e.g. Locutus of Borg and the Chain of Command stories. Jelicho or Riker could have taken over but the writers wont go there. K'ehleyr was like Ensign Ro. Played by a great actress and imbued with a passion and power seldom portrayed by females in Trek. Compare what she brings to the table against Troi or Dr. Crusher. No, these convenient and facile points about advancing particular story arcs are just that. I think TNG was diminished by this.
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