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Old October 13 2009, 01:28 AM   #1
Garak007
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How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

Get away with not being the annoying brat on DS9. Or DS9's answer to Wesley Crusher.

I think we give Aron Eisenberg character Nog for helping out Cirroc here. He was annoying brat at the start and unlike Wil Wheaton he was unable to turn it around and actually made the character likeable.

The Writers had to come up with some BALLS*** to resue the Wesley character I.E "The Traveller". Not Nog
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Old October 13 2009, 04:21 AM   #2
Jono
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

For one they didn't made Jake a super-genius who makes seasoned military officers and scientists look like incompetent 5th graders.
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Old October 13 2009, 04:50 AM   #3
Bones
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

^
Not to mention the most complex android ever created.

Jake was a likeable, normal kid. Also, his relationships with Sisko and Nog were very well played.
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Old October 13 2009, 05:58 AM   #4
happydave
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

As the previous posters have said, Jake was allowed to be a kid of his age and not some kind of wunderkind. Jake and Nog would just run around and cause trouble for Odo, and you got a legitimate sense of fun rather than an irritating condescending 15yr old telling everyone how to fix a complex situation.

And then he grew up slowly and you actually saw him figure out what he wants to do in life and follow his dream.

Plus unlike Wesley who seemed to only have a few interactions with his Mum (and it always felt slightly forced to me), Jake and Ben showed a strong father/son relationship.

So basically, the writing was a lot better and Jake was given decent relationships rather than trying to play technobabble with the adults.
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Old October 13 2009, 06:13 AM   #5
Hober Mallow
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

Jake, in DS9's season one, was trying to get to laid. In TNG season one, Wes, who was older, surrounded by scantily-clad blondes in "Justice," stuttered and stammered about not knowing how to play "some types of games," then went off looking for a stick so he could play baseball instead. What more do you need to know?
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Old October 13 2009, 09:11 AM   #6
nx1701g
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

happydave wrote: View Post
As the previous posters have said, Jake was allowed to be a kid of his age and not some kind of wunderkind. Jake and Nog would just run around and cause trouble for Odo, and you got a legitimate sense of fun rather than an irritating condescending 15yr old telling everyone how to fix a complex situation.

And then he grew up slowly and you actually saw him figure out what he wants to do in life and follow his dream.

Plus unlike Wesley who seemed to only have a few interactions with his Mum (and it always felt slightly forced to me), Jake and Ben showed a strong father/son relationship.

So basically, the writing was a lot better and Jake was given decent relationships rather than trying to play technobabble with the adults.
This is pretty much exactly why I like Jake. He was realistic.
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Old October 13 2009, 10:40 AM   #7
RichMerk
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

One of the best aspects of DS9 was the characters. They were all extremely well-thought-out and well-written. Heck, even Worf became a decent character when he moved to DS9. The DS9 characters far outshine all the characters in all the other series. Yes, even my beloved TOS.
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Old October 13 2009, 05:21 PM   #8
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

nx1701g wrote: View Post
happydave wrote: View Post
As the previous posters have said, Jake was allowed to be a kid of his age and not some kind of wunderkind. Jake and Nog would just run around and cause trouble for Odo, and you got a legitimate sense of fun rather than an irritating condescending 15yr old telling everyone how to fix a complex situation.

And then he grew up slowly and you actually saw him figure out what he wants to do in life and follow his dream.

Plus unlike Wesley who seemed to only have a few interactions with his Mum (and it always felt slightly forced to me), Jake and Ben showed a strong father/son relationship.

So basically, the writing was a lot better and Jake was given decent relationships rather than trying to play technobabble with the adults.
This is pretty much exactly why I like Jake. He was realistic.
I totally agree. Plus, it was also cool to see him have a mind of his own and choose a career other than Starfleet. I think he was a bit undisciplined sometimes and did not necessarily work as hard for his goals as Nog did--especially once Nog got his heart set on Starfleet--but that's something I think he could still grow out of after the show ended.

And yet compared to Wesley, the existence of this flaw is actually a good thing, as far as the writing of the character.
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Old October 13 2009, 06:44 PM   #9
Pemmer Harge
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

He was just a better-written character and Lofton made him likeable and believable. Plus there were those great scenes between Jake and his dad, which did a lot for Ben Sisko as a character.
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Old October 13 2009, 06:49 PM   #10
Brikar99
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

I really enjoyed the sort of inversion of roles with him and Nog - Nog was the one that joined Starfleet, and Jake ended up in a civilian job. I think lesser writers would've taken the more expected road, and had Jake follow in his dad's footsteps.
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Old October 13 2009, 06:54 PM   #11
PSGarak
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

He wasn't a Mary Sue. Nobody likes a Mary Sue.

He was a realistically written and depicted kid who had a realistic relationship with his father and those around him. That's rare to see in any fiction, not just Star Trek. Too often, kids are just plot devices, either objects that constantly get into peril to give their parents or other authority figures around them something to rescue and worry about, Mary Sues with all the answers that the stupid adults just don't see, or cutesy scene stealers played strictly for the "awwws".

As for the actor, I think he really grew into the role as time passed, figuratively and literally.
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Old October 13 2009, 06:57 PM   #12
John Picard
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

RichMerk wrote: View Post
One of the best aspects of DS9 was the characters. They were all extremely well-thought-out and well-written. Heck, even Worf became a decent character when he moved to DS9. The DS9 characters far outshine all the characters in all the other series. Yes, even my beloved TOS.
I have always argued that DS9 was the most realistic of the Trek franchise lines as well as the best written. People have been slow to come around and admit that it is.

Jake was a great character and not some annoying twit, like Wesley.
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Old October 13 2009, 08:38 PM   #13
Jefferies
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

Another point that made is character work well was the fact they didn't force him into every episode. Lofton might have been in the opening credits but on the whole he probably had as much screen time as Andrew Robinson. They used his character when it made sense and served the story. As a result his episodes and story arcs tended to be of high quality. Good examples are "The Visitor", "Nor the Battle to the Strong", "Explorers", his relationship with his Dad and Nog and the arc about him becoming a writer and doing something that wasn't connected to Starfleet. They used him to explore issues and storylines that the more traditional Star Trek characters didn't work with. Whereas Wesley was just in your face all the time. I seem to recall that after only half of TNG's first season he had saved the Enterprise more than half a dozen times or something crazy like that.
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Old October 14 2009, 12:39 PM   #14
JarodRussell
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

RichMerk wrote: View Post
One of the best aspects of DS9 was the characters. They were all extremely well-thought-out and well-written. Heck, even Worf became a decent character when he moved to DS9. The DS9 characters far outshine all the characters in all the other series. Yes, even my beloved TOS.
Exactly!
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Old October 14 2009, 12:59 PM   #15
Shazam!
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Re: How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

happydave wrote: View Post
Plus unlike Wesley who seemed to only have a few interactions with his Mum
I'd like to have a few interactions with Wesley's mum.
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