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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 3 2009, 03:42 PM   #1
BlastHardcheese
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So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the reboot?

Assuming Spock prime would try his best not to alter history further, what events from the prime universe should we expect the crew of the JJprise to encounter?

I can only think of a few from the movies:

V-Ger is still on its way.
Whale probe also.
Praxis will still detonate.

Are there anymore immutable events that Pine & crew should have to face in the name of continuity?
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Old October 3 2009, 03:49 PM   #2
SalvorHardin
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

If I remember correctly there's already an extensive thread on the matter around here somewhere.
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Old October 3 2009, 03:51 PM   #3
BlastHardcheese
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
If I remember correctly there's already an extensive thread on the matter around here somewhere.
I should've been less lazy and looked for it myself but I hate trawling through threads.
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Old October 3 2009, 03:57 PM   #4
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post
Assuming Spock prime would try his best not to alter history further, what events from the prime universe should we expect the crew of the JJprise to encounter?
None. It's a reboot, not a prequel. Technically, none of those events are still valid in the alternate universe; the time travel explanation is just sugar coating to help the more fanatical canon-nazis swallow it.

Of course, that won't prevent jerks like me from writing fanfics about the "prime universe" events being handled by the NuUniverse crew.
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Old October 3 2009, 04:01 PM   #5
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

Well, thank god for that.
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Old October 3 2009, 04:15 PM   #6
BlastHardcheese
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
None. It's a reboot, not a prequel. Technically, none of those events are still valid in the alternate universe; the time travel explanation is just sugar coating to help the more fanatical canon-nazis swallow it.
I disagree. Technically, events like Vger and the Whale probe are already in motion, but the writers can choose to ignore them and leave them out of the reboot.

Narratively they can be erased, but using the excuse that it's a reboot is like saying that going back in time and preventing the Roman empire from rising will also stop mount Vesuvius from erupting and burying the landscape where Pompeii might have been.

It would be extremely sloppy writing and I hate the fact that it will probably happen that way.
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Old October 3 2009, 04:48 PM   #7
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post

It would be extremely sloppy writing and I hate the fact that it will probably happen that way.
Why ?

I'm sorry but personally i don't want to see old stories retold in the sequel.

We've seen V'Ger, we've seen Khan, we've seen the whale probe etc etc
Let's see some new adventures.

But then again I'm one that doesn't care much about canon in relation with the new movies so...
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Old October 3 2009, 05:08 PM   #8
BlastHardcheese
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post

It would be extremely sloppy writing and I hate the fact that it will probably happen that way.
Why ?

I'm sorry but personally i don't want to see old stories retold in the sequel.

We've seen V'Ger, we've seen Khan, we've seen the whale probe etc etc
Let's see some new adventures.

But then again I'm one that doesn't care much about canon in relation with the new movies so...
I agree that new adventures will be a good thing. But I'm also saying that events in the trek universe like Vger are as sure to happen as the sun going nova in our real universe. Vger is coming. Vger was always coming no matter what happens to the Federation and Earth in the new trekverse.

It is sloppy writing to erase Vger from existence because no events in the new continuity exist to get rid of Vger before it arrives at earth. If Vger is erased, it means that there is no consistency in the new trek at all. Which means Spock prime should never have been there to tie both continuities together. Which means Abrams & co would be SLOPPY WRITERS.
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Old October 3 2009, 05:21 PM   #9
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post

It would be extremely sloppy writing and I hate the fact that it will probably happen that way.
Why ?

I'm sorry but personally i don't want to see old stories retold in the sequel.

We've seen V'Ger, we've seen Khan, we've seen the whale probe etc etc
Let's see some new adventures.

But then again I'm one that doesn't care much about canon in relation with the new movies so...
I agree that new adventures will be a good thing. But I'm also saying that events in the trek universe like Vger are as sure to happen as the sun going nova in our real universe. Vger is coming. Vger was always coming no matter what happens to the Federation and Earth in the new trekverse.

It is sloppy writing to erase Vger from existence because no events in the new continuity exist to get rid of Vger before it arrives at earth. If Vger is erased, it means that there is no consistency in the new trek at all. Which means Spock prime should never have been there to tie both continuities together. Which means Abrams & co would be SLOPPY WRITERS.

I agree that events such as Vger are already in motion and will probably happen.

However they can happen off screen.

As for Spock Prime being there to tie continuities... this is an alternate universe\timeline he has traveled to.
For him all the events we have seen in the past tv shows and movies have happened already in the Prime Universe and his existence or not does not depend on them happening again in the new universe.

We don't even know if there will even be a necessity for him to try and save Romulus from the strange supernova and therefore be sucked in the black hole in the new universe.
With all the knowledge our characters have they can now warn everyone and solve the problem before it ever happens.
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Old October 3 2009, 05:31 PM   #10
EnsignRicky
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

None are affected. It's the prime universe and all of the the events have already happened.

The reboot involves an alternate mirror parallel universe where anything can happen.

Perhaps Worf's first place standing in the bat'leth tournament might be at risk, but other than that it's an academic comparison.
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Old October 3 2009, 05:33 PM   #11
BlastHardcheese
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post

Why ?

I'm sorry but personally i don't want to see old stories retold in the sequel.

We've seen V'Ger, we've seen Khan, we've seen the whale probe etc etc
Let's see some new adventures.

But then again I'm one that doesn't care much about canon in relation with the new movies so...
I agree that new adventures will be a good thing. But I'm also saying that events in the trek universe like Vger are as sure to happen as the sun going nova in our real universe. Vger is coming. Vger was always coming no matter what happens to the Federation and Earth in the new trekverse.

It is sloppy writing to erase Vger from existence because no events in the new continuity exist to get rid of Vger before it arrives at earth. If Vger is erased, it means that there is no consistency in the new trek at all. Which means Spock prime should never have been there to tie both continuities together. Which means Abrams & co would be SLOPPY WRITERS.

I agree that events such as Vger are already in motion and will probably happen.

However they can happen off screen.

As for Spock Prime being there to tie continuities... this is an alternate universe\timeline he has traveled to.
For him all the events we have seen in the tv shows and movies have happened already in the Prime Universe and his existence or not does not depend on them happening again in the new universe.
I don't mind if the Vger incident happens offscreen and I don't even mind if it is never referenced. But I do mind if it is deliberately erased by Abrams in order to further reinforce the identity of the new universe as being distinct and original where anything can happen to Kirk and crew.

We've seen many events happen in the prime universe and of course they're not tied to Spock prime's existence, and they may not occur in the new one because of the timeline changes: Khan is a good example.

But the fact remains that Spock prime came from an alternate universe that only diverged with the new universe when the Kelvin was destroyed by Nero. Everything set in motion before that event which is on a direct collision course for the Federation (like Vger and the Whale Probe) must still necessarily arrive in the new universe. If they are erased for whatever reason, then this new universe should not have been touted as having diverged from the original. It should have been a complete reimagining and that would have erased characters like Nero and Spock prime from the story.


I also think the Vger story would be a good one to retell, and I think it would be crappy to gloss over it and let it happen offscreen. But Abrams did his damndest to respect what came before in many overt and subtle ways and I hope that this doesn't become a gaping hole in continuity so big that you could drive a 10km long alien machine lifeform built around an old earth space probe through it.
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Old October 3 2009, 09:49 PM   #12
Sabataage
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

While Abram's Trek borrows more from the original movies than the show, it takes place, like what-- ten years before the start of the series? So ten years plus the five year mission plus the two approximate years between the TOS and TMP (and that's a conservative number) it would mean Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, etc wouldn't have to worry about V'Ger or the Whale Probe for another fifteen to twenty years. While he could bridge the gap via time jumps (he's done those before on both Lost, and from-what-I've-heard Alias, with great succes) that would still probably be several movies away. And he may not be running the show by that point.
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Old October 4 2009, 03:19 AM   #13
Crazy Eddie
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
None. It's a reboot, not a prequel. Technically, none of those events are still valid in the alternate universe; the time travel explanation is just sugar coating to help the more fanatical canon-nazis swallow it.
I disagree. Technically, events like Vger and the Whale probe are already in motion, but the writers can choose to ignore them and leave them out of the reboot.
Which is only possible because it's a reboot, not a prequel.

Narratively they can be erased, but using the excuse that it's a reboot...
That would be a reason, not an excuse. There's no specific reason to have to revisit those films cinematically, or even to make any serious effort TO erase them. They can simply be ignored if and when the writers feel like doing something else.

That's what happens when you do a reboot: previous canon is wiped clean. Whatever in-universe reason you use to justify this--IF you bother to justify it--is just fan service.

It would be extremely sloppy writing and I hate the fact that it will probably happen that way.
What's sloppy about choosing not to rehash somebody else's story? Sloppy canon-following, maybe, but canon-following and writing are two different things. Star Trek is produced by writers, not historians.
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Old October 4 2009, 05:24 AM   #14
I am not Spock
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I don't expect to hear about V'Ger, or the whale probe, or Nomad, or Yonada, or many other prime-timeline events again.

It's a reboot, man. I agree that the Spock Prime/time travel stuff was just a cherry on top for the canon nazis. For all intents and purposes, this is a fresh start for Trek. No need to complicate things by introducing too many elements from older Trek productions.
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Old October 4 2009, 05:30 AM   #15
I am not Spock
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Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I don't believe Nero travelled back to the prime universe at all. This is a different timeline from the very start. In other words, this was another universe even before the destruction of the Kelvin. It allows Abrams to have a clean slate and do whatever he likes.

We've seen other timelines before, albeit on a smaller scale. This is no different. There is precedent in Trek for this.
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