RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,720
Posts: 5,214,780
Members: 24,211
Currently online: 763
Newest member: dmhp32


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 10 2009, 03:09 PM   #16
AntonyF
Administrator
 
AntonyF's Avatar
 
View AntonyF's Twitter Profile
Re: Electronic music in star trek

To be honest, the TNG crew came across as a boring bunch of twats. No TV, no drinking... their fun was going to piano concerts or poetry recitals. Dear god... no wonder they needed a counselor.

At least DS9 had booze, Vic Fontaine, baseball and holosuites. And they actually cooked food.
__________________
"I'll, uh, consume this in a room without detonating crockery, thank you very much."
AntonyF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2009, 08:17 PM   #17
tharpdevenport
Admiral
 
tharpdevenport's Avatar
 
Location: Click here for super karate monkey death MOD porn!
View tharpdevenport's Twitter Profile
Re: Electronic music in star trek

jazzstick wrote: View Post
Oh, and I don't beleive you when you say you don't drink!
Count me in as never. Not a single day in my life, have a had one tiny obit of alcohol. Alcohol free, feel fine, and I'm fit.

AntonyF wrote: View Post
To be honest, the TNG crew came across as a boring bunch of twats. No TV, no drinking... their fun was going to piano concerts or poetry recitals. Dear god... no wonder they needed a counselor.

At least DS9 had booze, Vic Fontaine, baseball and holosuites. And they actually cooked food.
More like educated, cultural, and into the arts.

And we never really saw much of the TNG private life anyway. Recall Picard dancing to mambo(?) in Insurrection, and I even remember someone -- maybe Riker -- having cooked a meal and serving it in his quarters.
__________________
Mr. Signature
Number 2 "Are you going to run?"
Number 6 "Like blazes! The first chance I get."
-Smile! God Loves You! Too bad he doesn't exist, oh and everyone else thinks you're an asshole.
tharpdevenport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2009, 10:38 PM   #18
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: Electronic music in star trek

jazzstick wrote: View Post
Sure! There are people composing classical music today, but you can sure, untill they are dead, main stream society won't give two good flying !@#$% about them or their music! That's not a assumption, thats a fact!
Actually, that is an assumption, not a fact. There are mainstream living composers, though it's true probably the most mainstream classical compositions are film music.

Again you "assume" that because classical music has been in "OUR" society that it will endure into the future, when you really have no basis for this fact! It could be polka or gangsta rap!(God forbid!) for all we know!
Look, have you seen the episode "Suddenly Human"? There's a scene in that episode where a human teenager named Jono is up listening to loud pop music. Go watch that scene - the music that Jono, a being from three hundred years into the future, who grew up among aliens, listens to... well, it sounds painfully 80s, doesn't it?

This is precisely the problem. The greats of classical music can be added to but for the most part are largely constant, they don't feel dated because even when the episode was made they're hundreds of years old. Pop music is considerably more fickle - if there is anything that's going to still be listened to in centuries, it's really anyone's bet as to what. (The Beatles maybe? There's a conservative guess.)

All we could say for certain is that there will be new forms of pop music. We have no idea what they'd sound like, and any attempt by us to replicate it will probably sound dated a couple of decades from now. Another non-Trek example is the music of the Krell in Forbidden Planet, compositions by a super-advanced alien race... which sound like the experimentally electronic score of the movie, which is primitive by today's standards, to say nothing of the staggering heights of civilization this alien race achieved. So it's perhaps best not to stray too far into this area, and there's the added corrollary that we don't know what or if pop music of the present will have a role in the future.

So, just as having your future characters talk about Hamlet is a safer bet talking about The Dark Knight, classical music is a viable constant. That's not me even claiming that it's better, just that it has a later expiry date.

As to what's considered classical music... making music old doesn't make it classical. Which is why I brought up the music hall hits - and even older, folk music. However there is a longstanding tradition of adapting and blending forms of popular and classical music, from the Hungarian Rhapsodies of Brahms to George Gershwin's compositions to even modern classical renditions of the Beatles and other rock groups. It's entirely possible that elements of rap could be incorporated into classical works (and may have already been done so, though I'd be ignorant of that.)

Oh, and I don't beleive you when you say you don't drink!
Teetotaller. Never touched the stuff in my life. I down inordinate amounts of caffeine and have dreadful eating habits, but hey, I don't drink alcohol.
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick

Last edited by Kegg; October 11 2009 at 12:26 AM.
Kegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 12:12 AM   #19
Steve Roby
Commodore
 
Steve Roby's Avatar
 
Location: Ottawa, ON Canada
Re: Electronic music in star trek

Speaking as a longtime fan of electronic music... the point a few people have made about it making a movie or series sound dated is a very good one. Some of it holds up very well, like the 1960s Radiophonic Workshop stuff for Doctor Who; some of it sounds horribly dated and cheesy, like a lot of 1980s Doctor Who music. Besides, it's not like electronic music is one style of music. Tangerine Dream and Burial are pretty damn far apart, stylistically.

Classical music has lasted for centuries. Jazz, most of a century. Rock and hiphop have been around for a few decades, but they have changed and evolved a lot in that time. TNG started in the late 1980s. Suppose they'd tried to be hip by featuring some rock song from the top 40 back then in an episode. Starship? Whitesnake? Bon Jovi? I might have been in a minority for considering that sort of music crap in 1987, but none of it is exactly timeless; it'd date an episode of TNG way more than using Beethoven or Thelonious Monk would.
__________________
Complete Starfleet Library http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars
Starfleet Library blog: starfleetlibrary.blogspot.com
Steve Roby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 12:37 AM   #20
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Electronic music in star trek

I was never a fan of these kind of anachronism in Trek. That obsession of the Trek characters with the 20th century... I think it's very unrealistic.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 12:43 AM   #21
M'rk, son of Mogh
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Electronic music in star trek

SpaceBrotha wrote: View Post
I want to see some Romulan synthesizers, or some Klingon drum machines. Maybe even some Bajoran vocoders. Is anyone else with me?
Like TNG's "Suddenly Human", Jono was listening to what you describe, I think.

And the bar in "Unification" had some weird sounding synthesizer played by that 4 armed chick.
M'rk, son of Mogh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 01:09 AM   #22
Joshua Howard
Captain
 
Joshua Howard's Avatar
 
Location: Tacoma, WA
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Joshua Howard
Re: Electronic music in star trek

AntonyF wrote: View Post
To be honest, the TNG crew came across as a boring bunch of twats. No TV, no drinking... their fun was going to piano concerts or poetry recitals. Dear god... no wonder they needed a counselor.
Roudy music and substance abuse is left out of Star Trek endorsed society because it conflicts with the prevailing message of evolved thought, self-control, logical conduct, etc.. You either understand and accept that, or you don't; but either way, the music and culture portrayed in Star Trek was chosen for a reason.

The Voyage Home and First Contact each deal with primative human culture. If you have a problem with this, chances are the idea of Vulcan logic is also offensive.

In real life, there are two strains of folks; the well-dressed ones who you see coming out of Opera and Symphonic halls at 9 PM, and the roudies who you see going into bars and night clubs at roughly the same time a few blocks over. I personally have a problem with anyone who considers refined living boring.
__________________
"The strain of the primitive... remained alive and active. Faithfulness and devotion, things born of fire and roof, were his; yet he retained his wildness and wiliness."

- The Call of the Wild, by Jack London
Joshua Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 01:50 AM   #23
Herkimer Jitty
Rear Admiral
 
Herkimer Jitty's Avatar
 
Location: Dayglow, New California Republic
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Herkimer Jitty
Re: Electronic music in star trek

Joshua Howard wrote: View Post
In real life, there are two strains of folks; the well-dressed ones who you see coming out of Opera and Symphonic halls at 9 PM, and the roudies who you see going into bars and night clubs at roughly the same time a few blocks over.
No.

In real life, there are an infinite number of strains of people.
__________________
"I've eaten breakfast cereals tougher than you! For reference, they were the ones with little marshmellows in them."
Herkimer Jitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 02:19 AM   #24
SFRabid
Commodore
 
SFRabid's Avatar
 
Re: Electronic music in star trek

Zappa wrote:
"I'll tell you what classical music is, for those of you who don't know. Classical music is this music that was written by a bunch of dead people a long time ago. And it's formula music, the same as top forty music is formula music. In order to have a piece be classical, it has to conform to academic standards that were the current norms of that day and age ...
That statement is about as correct as Zappa is "still cool and hip."

Classical, jazz, painting, etc... Throughout history the artists who stand out are the ones who are highly trained and skilled, then push the limit with those talents. Beethoven was certainly not accepted during his prime. Just like today, people of his time were listening to formula music. That is not the music that survived. Sadly, most electronic music will be forgotten because most of it is created by people who are limited to "point and click with a mouse" and cannot explore music by playing an instrument. A filter is not an instrument. Buying a bunch of Acid loops and putting them together in Live does not make one a musician or a composer.
SFRabid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 02:25 AM   #25
AntonyF
Administrator
 
AntonyF's Avatar
 
View AntonyF's Twitter Profile
Re: Electronic music in star trek

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I was never a fan of these kind of anachronism in Trek. That obsession of the Trek characters with the 20th century... I think it's very unrealistic.
Agreed... it's sucha 'nod' to the viewers.

I'd have preferred 21st century, or 22nd. I.e. they can be 'retro', but not be so obvious. i.e. Paris starting an old Ford truck. Pulease.
__________________
"I'll, uh, consume this in a room without detonating crockery, thank you very much."
AntonyF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 04:07 AM   #26
jazzstick
Lieutenant Commander
 
jazzstick's Avatar
 
Location: The Darkside of The Moon
Re: Electronic music in star trek

SFRabid wrote: View Post
Zappa wrote:
"I'll tell you what classical music is, for those of you who don't know. Classical music is this music that was written by a bunch of dead people a long time ago. And it's formula music, the same as top forty music is formula music. In order to have a piece be classical, it has to conform to academic standards that were the current norms of that day and age ...
That statement is about as correct as Zappa is "still cool and hip."

Classical, jazz, painting, etc... Throughout history the artists who stand out are the ones who are highly trained and skilled, then push the limit with those talents. Beethoven was certainly not accepted during his prime. Just like today, people of his time were listening to formula music. That is not the music that survived. Sadly, most electronic music will be forgotten because most of it is created by people who are limited to "point and click with a mouse" and cannot explore music by playing an instrument. A filter is not an instrument. Buying a bunch of Acid loops and putting them together in Live does not make one a musician or a composer.

So if one follows this line of thinking people who have monster chops are the ones that make the best music huh? I have another word for that....its called masturbation! The people who push the music envelope are the ones who use their skill, influences and taste to make their own music and be themselves! Music is a form of personal expression, not gymnastics! No one would compare say Miles Davis in trumpet skill to say Diz. If that was the case Miles would fail, but Miles had his own sound, and vision and that changed music, not that fact that he could play a million notes in the upper trumpet regisiter! Zappa is the same exact way!

By the way Zappa is still cool and hip, because he was Zappa, not some jerk off who can play flight of the bubble-bee on his or her instrument! That shit gets old real fast!
__________________
Sokath - his eyes uncovered.
jazzstick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2009, 04:08 AM   #27
jazzstick
Lieutenant Commander
 
jazzstick's Avatar
 
Location: The Darkside of The Moon
Re: Electronic music in star trek

Joshua Howard wrote: View Post
AntonyF wrote: View Post
To be honest, the TNG crew came across as a boring bunch of twats. No TV, no drinking... their fun was going to piano concerts or poetry recitals. Dear god... no wonder they needed a counselor.
Roudy music and substance abuse is left out of Star Trek endorsed society because it conflicts with the prevailing message of evolved thought, self-control, logical conduct, etc.. You either understand and accept that, or you don't; but either way, the music and culture portrayed in Star Trek was chosen for a reason.




The Voyage Home and First Contact each deal with primative human culture. If you have a problem with this, chances are the idea of Vulcan logic is also offensive.

In real life, there are two strains of folks; the well-dressed ones who you see coming out of Opera and Symphonic halls at 9 PM, and the roudies who you see going into bars and night clubs at roughly the same time a few blocks over. I personally have a problem with anyone who considers refined living boring.
STUFFED SHIRT!
__________________
Sokath - his eyes uncovered.
jazzstick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12 2009, 08:56 PM   #28
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Electronic music in star trek

We did get to hear some Vulcan music, during Amok Time. I believe that just to T'Pau's left, off camera, there was a full brass band. the overly loud music you heard while Kirk and Spock were fighting wasn't the episode's sound track, it was actual music being played in the Vulcan arena. This is the sole reason that Kirk didn't kick Spock's ass, he was distracted!
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13 2009, 12:32 AM   #29
omnirad
Lieutenant Commander
 
omnirad's Avatar
 
Location: Sector 001
Re: Electronic music in star trek

Though I agree that music that sounds contemporary and tries to be 'futuristic' usually doesn't work, I wish the producers tried harder to mix things up a bit.
Tuvok being a Jaco Pastorius fan, and jammin' on an electric bass guitar in the mess hall, would have been infinitely more interesting than Harry Kim playing the clarinet to an empty bridge...
__________________
" baD gRup ! - bOnk*boNk on tHe hEad!! "
omnirad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13 2009, 01:19 AM   #30
SFRabid
Commodore
 
SFRabid's Avatar
 
Re: Electronic music in star trek

jazzstick wrote: View Post
So if one follows this line of thinking people who have monster chops are the ones that make the best music huh?
If all else is equal, well, yes. Take two people with equal in all other areas, but only one of them was dedicated enough to practice and raise the talent skill, I would bet that is the one that makes better music.

I have another word for that....its called masturbation!
Strange. I have no idea how that relates, unless you already had that on your mind.

The people who push the music envelope are the ones who use their skill, influences and taste to make their own music and be themselves!
Isn't that what I said about Beethoven?

Music is a form of personal expression, not gymnastics! No one would compare say Miles Davis in trumpet skill to say Diz. If that was the case Miles would fail, but Miles had his own sound, and vision and that changed music, not that fact that he could play a million notes in the upper trumpet regisiter! Zappa is the same exact way!
I listen to both Miles and Dizzy and I would never say Miles is not talented or that Dizzy plays like a machine. Now IMHO Wynton Marsalis plays like a lifeless machine, void of imagination or expression. I would listen to Zappa before I would listen to Wynton, but I would never mention him in comparison to Miles or Dizzy.

By the way Zappa is still cool and hip, because he was Zappa, not some jerk off who can play flight of the bubble-bee on his or her instrument! That shit gets old real fast!
I would bet that Zappa can play Flight of the Bumble-Bee. I would like to hear what he says about many of the current electronic music releases. Take Flight of the Bumble-Bee, remove any dynamics or timing varances, and you have what a lot of people are getting out of their sequencers. Mechanical timing and velocity set to 120 on every note.

Jazz musician to electronic musician: "I play trumpet and percussion. What do you play?"

ELectronic musician: "I play arpeggiator and filter."
SFRabid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.