Greg Cox's Welcome to Promise City (a 4400 novel) - SPOILERS

[cwalrus2]

I finished reading Greg's new novel today and I really enjoyed it. The continuation of the canceled show was handled quite superbly as I totally felt immersed in the world of the book just as I would an episode. Of course, the tone of the book felt more like a season or series finale rather than a season opener, but that was as expected. All of my favorite characters were back and behaving just as I expected them to, and I think Greg's approach to handling the reality of Promise City worked and seemed in line with what the Producers of the show would have done with Jordan and his followers in control of Seattle. Before reading the book I wasn't sure if the government was going to try to take the city back by force right away, but it would seem plausible that if Jordan had unlimited Promicin abilities at his disposal to unleash on the rest of the country that the government might bide their time and wait for the right opportunity to present itself thereby temporarily relinquishing control of a major city to a figure like Collier.

I particularly liked Kyle's role in the story. I had previously stated that I was unhappy with how the show's writers handled Kyle's character in the 4th season, but this novel totally makes up for it. It finally gave me the payoff I was looking for with the character bringing Kyle into conflict between his loyalties to Jordan, his father, and oddly enough himself since his abilty is a projection of himself only as a female form, Cassie, who spurs Kyle on towards his devotion to Collier's movement. Overall, I also liked how the subject of young people's devotion to a cause was explored and how easily young people can be manipulated and become fanatical once they seem to feel as if they've "discovered" their purpose. It's almost as if rationality gets eclipsed once someone believes they must further a higher calling that they believe in, and Kyle isn't the only one who deals with it. It's sort of problematic that the sort of self-discovery involved in attaining a special ability could either cause someone to change their perspective or reinforce certain delusional beliefs that were there to begin with.

Thanks for bringing back Richard and Dennis Ryland. Those were two characters sorely missed in the show's finale episodes. It made sense that Jordan would try to use Richard again the way he does in this book although one could argue that what Richard was doing was justified. I'm sure Tom must have understood that by giving Jordan the list of the Marked that Jordan would handle things his way, and to be honest, saving each of the host bodies may have proved impossible anyway as much as it pains me to sound like an apologist for Jordan's cause.

I have a few questions I'd like to ask Greg if that's okay. I've tried to stay as SPOILER Free as possible, but I'm sorry if some details get spilled.

1. I thought the Drew Emroth nanites were successfully implanted into Jordan during the finale just not activated. As you know, the Marked nanites could lay dormant for a while as they did with Tom during the 4th season which is why Tom encouraged Jordan to "mend fences" with Shawn after their escape implying that Jordan needed the same treatment that Tom needed to remove a Mark. Did you decide to do away with that potential aspect of the story so that you could focus more on your own plot developments or did you just feel like it was implied that that happened before the events of your story?

2. Where did the Astrid Bonner character come from? I don't seem to remember her although it feels like I should already know who she is when her character appears? I recognized Simone Tanaka from the Vesuvius Prophecy as an original character of yours but I don't remember
Astrid.

3. Nice touch using the Klingon mask. Kapla!! I couldn't help but smile when I read that.

4. My only disappointment was that Shawn seemed to disappear from the story. I know you had a lot of characters to juggle with and a limited amount of time to devote to each of them. Will Shawn be featured more in Promises Broken?

5. Since the show never showed us who were the rest of the Marked that were on the list that Tom gave to Jordan are there any specific reasons behind choosing the identities of these characters?

Overall, thanks for the fun read. I had a good time immersing myself in that universe as you can probably tell. I truly hope there will be more 4400 novels to come if at all possible. I look forward to David Mack's Promises Broken.

I might think of more questions. When I do, I'll post them here.

P.S. If I ever visit Philly, I'll make a point of visiting Eastern State Penitentiary. Of course, my dislike for Philly's baseball and football teams might very well get me locked up.

Let's Go Mets!!! Let's Go Giants!!!!!

[KingstonTrekker]

A good summary of the book -- you likely should have put a spoiler tag in your thread's title though.

I started a similar thread about this book in this forum a couple of weeks ago -- here is the link http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=100525

[Greg Cox]

Glad you liked the book! See responses below. Forgive if I mess up the quote tags. I've never really figured out how they work!

cwalrus2 wrote:

---

I finished reading Greg's new novel today and I really enjoyed it. The continuation of the canceled show was handled quite superbly as I totally felt immersed in the world of the book just as I would an episode. Of course, the tone of the book felt more like a season or series finale rather than a season opener, but that was as expected. All of my favorite characters were back and behaving just as I expected them to, and I think Greg's approach to handling the reality of Promise City worked and seemed in line with what the Producers of the show would have done with Jordan and his followers in control of Seattle. Before reading the book I wasn't sure if the government was going to try to take the city back by force right away, but it would seem plausible that if Jordan had unlimited Promicin abilities at his disposal to unleash on the rest of the country that the government might bide their time and wait for the right opportunity to present itself thereby temporarily relinquishing control of a major city to a figure like Collier.

I particularly liked Kyle's role in the story. I had previously stated that I was unhappy with how the show's writers handled Kyle's character in the 4th season, but this novel totally makes up for it. It finally gave me the payoff I was looking for with the character bringing Kyle into conflict between his loyalties to Jordan, his father, and oddly enough himself since his abilty is a projection of himself only as a female form, Cassie, who spurs Kyle on towards his devotion to Collier's movement. Overall, I also liked how the subject of young people's devotion to a cause was explored and how easily young people can be manipulated and become fanatical once they seem to feel as if they've "discovered" their purpose. It's almost as if rationality gets eclipsed once someone believes they must further a higher calling that they believe in, and Kyle isn't the only one who deals with it. It's sort of problematic that the sort of self-discovery involved in attaining a special ability could either cause someone to change their perspective or reinforce certain delusional beliefs that were there to begin with.

Thanks for bringing back Richard and Dennis Ryland. Those were two characters sorely missed in the show's finale episodes. It made sense that Jordan would try to use Richard again the way he does in this book although one could argue that what Richard was doing was justified. I'm sure Tom must have understood that by giving Jordan the list of the Marked that Jordan would handle things his way, and to be honest, saving each of the host bodies may have proved impossible anyway as much as it pains me to sound like an apologist for Jordan's cause.

I have a few questions I'd like to ask Greg if that's okay. I've tried to stay as SPOILER Free as possible, but I'm sorry if some details get spilled.

1. I thought the Drew Emroth nanites were successfully implanted into Jordan during the finale just not activated. As you know, the Marked nanites could lay dormant for a while as they did with Tom during the 4th season which is why Tom encouraged Jordan to "mend fences" with Shawn after their escape implying that Jordan needed the same treatment that Tom needed to remove a Mark. Did you decide to do away with that potential aspect of the story so that you could focus more on your own plot developments or did you just feel like it was implied that that happened before the events of your story?


The series finale implied that Shawn would use his powers to cure Jordan, just like he had with Tom. I didn't think it was necessary to show that scene since it just would have been a replay of something we'd already seen.

2. Where did the Astrid Bonner character come from? I don't seem to remember her although it feels like I should already know who she is when her character appears? I recognized Simone Tanaka from the Vesuvius Prophecy as an original character of yours but I don't remember
Astrid.

Do you mean Abigail? She was introduced, without much fanfare, near the end of the tv series. She was basically a blank slate so I had a lot of leeway with her.

3. Nice touch using the Klingon mask. Kapla!! I couldn't help but smile when I read that.

Thanks!

4. My only disappointment was that Shawn seemed to disappear from the story. I know you had a lot of characters to juggle with and a limited amount of time to devote to each of them. Will Shawn be featured more in Promises Broken?

Mea culpa. I agree that Shawn got neglected this time around. But with so many characters to deal with, somebody had to get shortchanged--and I figured that I had already given Shawn plenty of screen time in my previous 4400 book.

5. Since the show never showed us who were the rest of the Marked that were on the list that Tom gave to Jordan are there any specific reasons behind choosing the identities of these characters?

In the episode that originally introduced The Marked, there's a brief glimpse of them holding a summit meeting (as seen in a black-and-white movie clip). I lifted a lot of the descriptions from that scene: a Asian woman, a Vatican official, etcetera.

Overall, thanks for the fun read. I had a good time immersing myself in that universe as you can probably tell. I truly hope there will be more 4400 novels to come if at all possible. I look forward to David Mack's Promises Broken.

I might think of more questions. When I do, I'll post them here.

P.S. If I ever visit Philly, I'll make a point of visiting Eastern State Penitentiary. Of course, my dislike for Philly's baseball and football teams might very well get me locked up.

Let's Go Mets!!! Let's Go Giants!!!!!

[David Mack]

Will Shawn be featured more in Promises Broken?

I can tell you that Shawn plays a significant role in Promises Broken -- however, I also had to juggle the "screen time" of a lot of characters. I hope that the balance I struck will work for the book's readers.

[cwalrus2]

" 2. Where did the Astrid Bonner character come from? I don't seem to remember her although it feels like I should already know who she is when her character appears? I recognized Simone Tanaka from the Vesuvius Prophecy as an original character of yours but I don't remember
Astrid.

Do you mean Abigail? She was introduced, without much fanfare, near the end of the tv series. She was basically a blank slate so I had a lot of leeway with her."


Thanks Greg and David for your reply. Can't wait for the next book.

I actually meant the woman with the freezing ability. The one who helps Ryland with the interrogation. I just don't recall where she came from or if I should know whoshe is already.

Thanks again for your replies. It's pretty awesome when you can discuss a book with the author.

[Greg Cox]

Oh right. Astrid! I forgot about her.

I made her up.

[LightningStorm]

I finished this recently. It was excellent! My only gripe though was with Kyle and Cassie's "relationship" this struck me as awkward and a little too weird and also out of the blue.

Loved with you did with the Marked. Loved Haspelcorp (sp?). There's also a morbid part of me that needs to point out how absolutely AWESOME some of the various death scenes were. Astrid's was actually one such good one as well as the Marked's suicides to transfer bodies.

I am quite eager for Promises Broken, though slightly concerned that there won't be enough time in one book to wrap up as much as needs to be wrapped up. But as a certified David Mack fanboy, I'm confident it'll be excellent.


Edit: also added the Spoiler warning to the thread title

[cwalrus2]

^ Thanks for adding the SPOILER warning. I didn't mind the direction that was taken with the Kyle / Cassie relationship. When she was first introduced, she seemed to flirt with him a little, and I'm guessing that when the show writers decided to put Kyle and Isabelle together that they backed off that whole angle of the story. Now with Isabelle gone, it seemed to make sense that Cassie would use Kyle's attraction to her as an advantage even though Cassie is really Kyle's own manifestation. I suppose most shrinks would have a field day with that, but Greg's description of her as Kyle's aenima (sp?) made sense to me. Unlike most of us, Kyle is able to physically interact with that side of himself. Who's to say most people wouldn't develop that kind of relationship with themselves if the opportunity presented itself.

What I'm curious to know is if Kyle would have developed the same ability had he been abducted along with the original 4400s instead of Shawn or if he would have developed Shawn's healing ability. That actually would have made for good episode I think. Even though the show explored alternate realities before, it would have been interesting to see an episode where Kyle was an original 4400 with Shawn's healing ability and Shawn was the one in a coma all that time. It's just one of those "what if" ideas that occured to me.

[KingstonTrekker]

LightningStorm wrote:

---

I finished this recently. It was excellent! My only gripe though was with Kyle and Cassie's "relationship" this struck me as awkward and a little too weird and also out of the blue.

As I already stated, I also loved this book. However, I need to echo Lightning Storm's reflections on the Kyle/Cassie dynamic. It was the one part of the book that did not work for me. It also reminded me too much of the Baltar/Six relationship from NuBSG...

[Greg Cox]

KingstonTrekker wrote:

---

As I already stated, I also loved this book. However, I need to echo Lightning Storm's reflections on the Kyle/Cassie dynamic. It was the one part of the book that did not work for me. It also reminded me too much of the Baltar/Six relationship from NuBSG...

I confess: the Kyle/Cassie thing was mostly my idea. It seemed like the next logical step in their "relationship" and I liked the whole kinky, scifi weirdness of it all. To be honest, I was always surprised that the tv show didn't go there. At one point, I was sure they were setting up a Kyle/Cassie/Isabel triangle . . . .

The Baltar/Six parallel never occured to me before, but who knows? Maybe that was lurking at the back of my mind somewhere.

[David Mack]

^ I guess I'll just warn folks ahead of time — I took the Kyle/Cassie dynamic the Greg developed in Welcome to Promise City and pushed it a few more clicks around the dial to "11" in Promises Broken.

[David Mack]

Shameless Plug:

For those who might be interested, Amazon.com now has Chapter One of The 4400: Promises Broken up as an extract.

(Because they never format scene breaks properly, I'll just point out that the last line of scene one is, "He felt himself scream, but he heard only silence.")