RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,902
Posts: 5,387,583
Members: 24,718
Currently online: 642
Newest member: Tribblemaker

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: Are Actives slaves?
Yes 23 58.97%
No 16 41.03%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 22 2009, 05:17 AM   #1
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Are "Dolls" slaves?

One of the recurring points on Dollhouse is that many people assert that the Actives are slaves. Even if they volunteered for it, they say no one can sign a contract that makes them a slave.

I would disagree that the Actives are slaves at all, at least not in principle. (There is evidence in "Echoes" that at least some Actives were extorted into joining. It seems that if the Rossum Corporation catches someone snooping too close to one of their secret projects, they offer them a choice of a 5 year contract with the Dollhouse or bringing them up on criminal charges.) But lets assume that, aside from a few unsavory exceptions, most Actives joined the Dollhouse willingly. Are they slaves?

I would argue that they're no more slaves than any other working person. All they are doing is leasing the use of their body to the Dollhouse for a substantial monetary fee. Are the Actives made to do things they would not otherwise do? Sure, but so does pretty much everyone. I'm sure a cashier would rather be doing something else but they do it because they are paid to and they prefer working over starving.

So why the consistent references to slavery? A slave is someone who is owned by someone else and does not benefit from the fruits of their own labor. If the Actives volunteer, are paid well, and get their bodies back after the contract expires, how can they be slaves?
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 06:01 AM   #2
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
 
Location: Missile Command
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Yes. They are. A normal worker has a choice, they aren't kept in a child like stupor and then programmed to be something they had choice in. In fact, they are almost the perfect slave, as they can forget all their hardships.
MeanJoePhaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 06:16 AM   #3
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

But they chose to be temporarily put into that childlike stupor.
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 06:57 AM   #4
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: Sand in the Vaseline
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

I realised the other day that Dollhouse is Joe 90 with tits. Echo even wears his specs at one stage in Ghost.
Joe 90 was even creepier given that the father was programming his son -- perhaps an extrapolation of how parents fcuk up their children (as Philip Larkin put it in This Be The Verse).

IMO the dolls are slaves in that their mental state prevents them from opting out.
__________________
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." -- Spock -- Flip flap!
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 08:41 AM   #5
Checkmate
Commodore
 
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
But they chose to be temporarily put into that childlike stupor.
So?

And, actually, they were indentured into it through contracts and promises that they have absolutely no way of making sure are kept. The contracts may as well have been written on toliet paper. This is proven all the more in the beloved (even though it just made me roll my eyes -- to each their own) episode, Epitaph One. You know, where the company just spontaneously decides to sell them as new bodies for the wealthy.

They're slaves. Mindless ones at that. Zero question about it.
Checkmate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 10:09 AM   #6
Yoda
Rear Admiral
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Location: San Diego
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

I didn't buy indentured servitude = slavery stuff in grade school history and I don't buy it here.
__________________
Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 02:44 PM   #7
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Yes, they are.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 02:47 PM   #8
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
 
Location: ANS Yamato, Sector 5, Sol System
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Yoda wrote: View Post
I didn't buy indentured servitude = slavery stuff in grade school history and I don't buy it here.
Then your history teacher was incompetent, and you need to read some black history books, or ones that are off the beaten track
Dusty Ayres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 03:01 PM   #9
intrinsical
Fleet Captain
 
intrinsical's Avatar
 
Location: Singapore
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

I voted yes mainly because actives have no way to "opt out" of their contract. And like someone said above, the company can simply keep actives around long past their contracted period of servitude quite simply because the actives would have no recollection of the contract, or its duration.
intrinsical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 03:02 PM   #10
Lindley
Moderator with a Soul
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Yes, but I can understand how the people in charge might fool themselves into thinking otherwise.
__________________
Lead Organizer for EVN: Firefly.
"So apparently the really smart zombies have automatic weapons!"
-Torg, Sluggy Freelance
Lindley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 04:29 PM   #11
Captain Craig
Vice Admiral
 
Captain Craig's Avatar
 
Location: Nashville,TN
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

For the question: are they slaves? To some degree they allowed themselves into that. They knew going in they couldn't "opt" out. Some like Alpha who were prison inmates recruited I could see as more slaves than those who agreed, either willingly or under duress.
To me this question is what makes shows like this good. Some moral ambiguity to make us all think and rethink what we believe we already know as definitions for things.

My main answer: NO

intrinsical wrote: View Post
I voted yes mainly because actives have no way to "opt out" of their contract. And like someone said above, the company can simply keep actives around long past their contracted period of servitude quite simply because the actives would have no recollection of the contract, or its duration.
I don't recall off hand now but did Millie/November seem to act as if she knew Adelle and had fulfilled her contract at the season close? I know I don't recall her, at the point we come into the conversation, acting weirded out by what was going on.

I have a thought on that scene: Spoiler
__________________
"Picard never hit me." Q-Less(DS9)
"Freedom is the Right of All Sentient Beings" Optimus Prime
Twitter:http://twitter.com/#!/CaptainCraig1
Captain Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 07:27 PM   #12
Yoda
Rear Admiral
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Location: San Diego
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

OMG if you sign a contract to be a soldier, then you try to 'opt-out' they thrown you in jail. WTF SLAVERY OHNOES!!!1!
__________________
Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 07:31 PM   #13
Alpha_Geek
Commodore
 
Alpha_Geek's Avatar
 
Location: Central VA, US
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

To quote Rush (the band),

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
Alpha_Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 07:38 PM   #14
Yoda
Rear Admiral
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Location: San Diego
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Dusty Ayres wrote: View Post
Yoda wrote: View Post
I didn't buy indentured servitude = slavery stuff in grade school history and I don't buy it here.
Then your history teacher was incompetent, and you need to read some black history books, or ones that are off the beaten track


Except that indentured servitude was the mechanism by which the majority of Europeans emigrated from Europe back in ye olden tymes. They weren't slaves. Exploited in many instances, sure! But not every exploited person in the world is a slave... sorry. If anything trying to equate the two downplays slavery of blacks in America.
__________________
Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22 2009, 07:54 PM   #15
Tomato
Rear Admiral
 
Location: T.O. in Canada eh!
Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Yoda wrote: View Post
OMG if you sign a contract to be a soldier, then you try to 'opt-out' they thrown you in jail. WTF SLAVERY OHNOES!!!1!
But you know what you are doing and you still have a choice in your actions 100% of the time. And that is still a choice to be thrown in jail, you must have consciously disobeyed some command.

Like these Dolls are being rented out as high class escorts has anybody even bother testing the dolls or even the people that rent them out? They are always being forced to do more and more dangerous things.
Tomato is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
dollhouse

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.