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Old September 18 2009, 12:19 PM   #16
Iasius
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

I don't blame Fox. I never even got into the show myself a long time after it was canceled because I thought the premise can't work. They probably could've given it a better chance at succeeding, but that just happens to some shows. Often, it's shows I don't like, sometimes it's ones that I care about.
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Old September 18 2009, 12:23 PM   #17
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

the Dagman wrote: View Post
Rii wrote: View Post
the Dagman wrote: View Post
the reason it is unforgivable even to me is that none of the hard core fans of the show will shut up about it even now, years and years later.
I think you mean "detractors".
If the Browncoats would be quiet and people stop making threads about the damn thing, you'd never hear me mention it again. At least I said if it was in my power I'd give you people the show back. Anything, just to shut you up about it.
You could always, y'know, just avoid such threads. Just a suggestion.
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Old September 18 2009, 12:28 PM   #18
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

Many reasons why Fox gets the blame..

a) Firefly is a chronological show.. while each episode is mostly self contained they do build on each other and because Fox run them in a disorderly fashion people were scratching their heads when some events were referenced which they didn't see

b) Serenity was the pilot episode and got shown last

c) The Friday slot of death.. no show save X-Files made it if it was in that slot

d) Not as much advertising as should have been.. if you are producing or paying for an expensive SF show make sure everybody knows about it

e) When all these factors led to unsatisfactory viewership numbers Fox just gave it the ax without trying other slots or something else..

f) Fox repeatedly hampered attempts to release this show to other stations.. it was their property and they clung to it as if it was worth something to them

g) DVD sales were gigantic and so were reviews of the show but Fox never considered a re-launch.. there obviously was interest but Fox ignored it

h) In an unparalleled move Firefly even got its own movie (and not a direct to DVD kind of thing).. while not that successful to warrant sequels it still was a success

All considered Firefly fans were pissed that the show was never properly treated by Fox so it couldn't have a chance to build an audience besides hardcore SF fans. So naturally it slumped and immediately got the axe.. as if Fox execs just waited for the opportunity to burn it down.

This is what pisses of Firefly fans.. if the show had proper support like other shows and failed they would still bitch about it but it would have been less.. Firefly had its chance and failed. But as it stands it was sabotaged by Fox from the beginning.
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Old September 18 2009, 12:37 PM   #19
Lindley
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

the Dagman wrote: View Post
If the Browncoats would be quiet and people stop making threads about the damn thing, you'd never hear me mention it again. At least I said if it was in my power I'd give you people the show back. Anything, just to shut you up about it.
There have been how many threads about it lately? Two in the last month that I can think of offhand, including this one? Why is this a problem?

Firefly's cancellation was a bit of a "perfect storm" situation. A lot of elements came together in just the right way to inflame tempers:

1) The theme of the show. It's about people who lost a war just trying to get by despite the uncaring or outright hostile big government. The parallel to the network is unmistakable. Every time someone sung the theme song, the fact that yes, they damn well can take the sky from you was driven home with a hammer.

2) Concurrent television. Enterprise had been going long enough that the initial shine had worn off, and everyone was starting to question why it wasn't a better series; especially with things like Firefly and SG-1 (then at its peak) around to contrast against. Remember how in the early ENT interviews Archer was described as a "Hans (sic) Solo type"? Well, Mal actually *was*, and people noticed the difference. A certain amount of the backlash was a perception that an inferior show could last longer due purely to "name recognition" and choice of network.

3) The "it got good" factor. While some people were completely hooked from the start, many, including me, figured it was just okay for a while there. Then we saw "Ariel", or whichever episode it would ultimately be that tipped the balance; and suddenly we understood. That moment when the series crystallizes as a concept occurred, and even the eps we'd already seen where elevated as a result. And a week later the axe fell, following one of the best episodes, "War Stories". It was just really bad timing.

4) Lost potential. The Firefly universe was one of those worlds that screamed for exploration. Not because of what we'd seen, but because of what had been hinted at. The (initially bizarre) choice of a "literal western" setting spurred large amounts of debate on exactly what conditions could lead to such a scenario, and after all that talk it became entirely apparent just how many stories there were to tell in such an unlikely world. But it was not to be.

5) Perception of network hostility. In addition to what RoJo said above, consider that airing the pilot last, in addition to the inherent ridiculousness, caused the very last aired exchange of the series to be:
"We're still flying..."
"That's not much."
"It's enough."
Now, that sort of irony is just a bit too much.
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Last edited by Lindley; September 18 2009 at 01:33 PM.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:08 PM   #20
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

Deckerd wrote: View Post
the Dagman wrote: View Post
Rii wrote: View Post

I think you mean "detractors".
If the Browncoats would be quiet and people stop making threads about the damn thing, you'd never hear me mention it again. At least I said if it was in my power I'd give you people the show back. Anything, just to shut you up about it.
You could always, y'know, just avoid such threads. Just a suggestion.
Actually, I usually do. Only on the rare occasion will I poke my head into one of these threads. This one asked a question in the thread title I had an answer for. And I was actually agreeing it was unforgivable to cancel it. Yet, still you fans have to bust my balls because I don't like the show.

Lindley wrote: View Post
the Dagman wrote: View Post
If the Browncoats would be quiet and people stop making threads about the damn thing, you'd never hear me mention it again. At least I said if it was in my power I'd give you people the show back. Anything, just to shut you up about it.
There have been how many threads about it lately? Two in the last month that I can think of offhand, including this one? Why is this a problem?
Oh really? Just two? Try using that search feature at the top of the page and type the word "firefly" into the drop down. I count 28 threads active just within the last 24 hours that Firefly was brought up in some way. 28 threads in 24 hours. And 43 threads in the last week alone.

Like I said, you fans of the show never shut up about it.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:11 PM   #21
Lindley
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

That's misleading. Some of those threads are very long, and if the word "Firefly" was mentioned *anywhere* in them even once, they'll show up in that list regardless of what the latest activity was about.

But even if there were that much discussion, so what? The fact that we still have stuff to talk about after all this time just answers the question in this thread's OP. It's not something we're going to apologize for.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:19 PM   #22
the Dagman
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

Lindley wrote: View Post
That's misleading. Some of those threads are very long, and if the word "Firefly" was mentioned *anywhere* in them even once, they'll show up in that list regardless of what the latest activity was about.

But even if there were that much discussion, so what? The fact that we still have stuff to talk about after all this time just answers the question in this thread's OP. It's not something we're going to apologize for.
And I wasn't asking for one.

I was just making my point that you people never shut up about the show. The fact that it may have been mentioned only once in each of those threads disproves my point how? In fact, that just makes it worse! In that you fans feel the need to interject some mention of that show that many times in a short period, even in subjects totally unrelated to the show, only strengthens my point.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:20 PM   #23
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

the Dagman wrote: View Post
Oh really? Just two? Try using that search feature at the top of the page and type the word "firefly" into the drop down. I count 28 threads active just within the last 24 hours that Firefly was brought up in some way. 28 threads in 24 hours. And 43 threads in the last week alone.

Like I said, you fans of the show never shut up about it.
Dude, seriously, what's your problem? There are tens of thousands of posts on this message board. There are, by your count, exactly 28 threads devoted to a specific show. So fucking what?

There are also threads devoted to Babylon 5, Doctor Who, Stargate, BSG, M*A*S*H, CSI, Family Guy, and a lot of other shows.

If you don't like a subject, don't click on it. No one in the world is forcing you to see "Oh, another XXX thread" and click on it. Take a chill pill, mature yourself a little, and move the fuck on.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:21 PM   #24
Deckerd
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

the Dagman wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
That's misleading. Some of those threads are very long, and if the word "Firefly" was mentioned *anywhere* in them even once, they'll show up in that list regardless of what the latest activity was about.

But even if there were that much discussion, so what? The fact that we still have stuff to talk about after all this time just answers the question in this thread's OP. It's not something we're going to apologize for.
And I wasn't asking for one.

I was just making my point that you people never shut up about the show. The fact that it may have been mentioned only once in each of those threads disproves my point how?
There's someone here who absolutely cannot shut up about it that's for sure.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:24 PM   #25
cultcross
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

the Dagman wrote: View Post
Like I said, you fans of the show never shut up about it.
Some shows have whole fora dedicated to them. I wish the fans of those woudl shut up. And this 'Star Trek' show takes up half the front page. Jeez, shut up about your cancelled shows already.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:27 PM   #26
Lindley
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

Frankly I'm a little surprised that someone with a Doctor Who avatar would have such a problem with it. Considering that Doctor Who shares a lot of the same style as Joss Whedon's stuff. I mean, the parallels aren't as obvious with Firefly, but Buffy and Who take a very similar approach to mixing humor, serious story, character stuff, and cheese.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:28 PM   #27
Deckerd
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

mmmmmmmmm cheese
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Old September 18 2009, 02:31 PM   #28
bigdaddy
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

I'm more pissed off that they canceled Wonderfalls.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:37 PM   #29
the Dagman
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

OmahaStar wrote: View Post
the Dagman wrote: View Post
Oh really? Just two? Try using that search feature at the top of the page and type the word "firefly" into the drop down. I count 28 threads active just within the last 24 hours that Firefly was brought up in some way. 28 threads in 24 hours. And 43 threads in the last week alone.

Like I said, you fans of the show never shut up about it.
Dude, seriously, what's your problem? There are tens of thousands of posts on this message board. There are, by your count, exactly 28 threads devoted to a specific show. So fucking what?

There are also threads devoted to Babylon 5, Doctor Who, Stargate, BSG, M*A*S*H, CSI, Family Guy, and a lot of other shows.

If you don't like a subject, don't click on it. No one in the world is forcing you to see "Oh, another XXX thread" and click on it. Take a chill pill, mature yourself a little, and move the fuck on.
Look, I could really give a shit about the entire subject. Lindley pulled that "two threads in the last month" line that was so laughably wrong that I was able to disprove it by a two second search. And having done that you come in claiming I need to chill (why? I am laughing at all of you! I couldn't be more chilled right now if I was high on pot) and mature myself?

Oh, and that was 28 threads in the last 24 hours. Not 28 total threads, btw. And as I said in the post you didn't entirely quote, I almost never poke my head into one of these threads. Search my posts, I dare you. Go on. I have nothing to hide. Tell me where I have been in a Firefly thread recently. I cannot even remember the last time myself, so I will go search too just out of curiosity.
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Old September 18 2009, 02:51 PM   #30
Lindley
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Re: Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

^That's a huge spin of the results too, though. You say "28 threads in the last 24 hours" as if they've all been discussing Firefly that time, which they obviously haven't.

I just did play around with search a bit. There have been 12 threads with "Firefly" in the title in all of 2009. Of the remaining threads on the first page of "Search entire post" results, most of them are subjects where it's perfectly reasonable for it to come up, and/or really long threads where it's not unreasonable to suppose it may have been mentioned at some point. The remaining threads I'll grant I'm curious how it came up (not really sure how it's relevant to Karl Urban's hair color).
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