RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,791
Posts: 5,217,797
Members: 24,221
Currently online: 725
Newest member: soccerjerseys29

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 16 2009, 03:30 AM   #16
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
I'm not sure that Sarek had anything to defend. Having a human mother would be a disadvantage to be overcome in Vulcan society... as Spock would be more prone to emotion. The Vulcan was being logical.
Racial/species prejudice is never logical.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2009, 03:37 AM   #17
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
I'm not sure that Sarek had anything to defend. Having a human mother would be a disadvantage to be overcome in Vulcan society... as Spock would be more prone to emotion. The Vulcan was being logical.
Why would Spock be more prone to emotion because his mother was human? Was he not raise as a Vulcan? The only disadvantage would be from prejudical Vulcans.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2009, 03:41 AM   #18
pookha
Admiral
 
pookha's Avatar
 
Location: pookha
View pookha's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Kelso wrote: View Post
I'm not sure that Sarek had anything to defend. Having a human mother would be a disadvantage to be overcome in Vulcan society... as Spock would be more prone to emotion. The Vulcan was being logical.
Why would Spock be more prone to emotion because his mother was human? Was he not raise as a Vulcan? The only disadvantage would be from prejudical Vulcans.

very true.
as sarek admitted. vulcans actually are more emotional then humans.
they just work harder at trying to control emotions due to that.
__________________
avatar by
?
pookha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2009, 03:45 AM   #19
Kelso
Vice Admiral
 
Kelso's Avatar
 
Location: On the destruct button until the last minute!
View Kelso's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Spock's hybrid nature and struggle to reconcile his Human and Vulcan halves has been integral to the character since WNMHGB.

Like it or not, that's the way it works in the Trek universe.
Kelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2009, 06:54 AM   #20
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
Spock's hybrid nature and struggle to reconcile his Human and Vulcan halves has been integral to the character since WNMHGB.

Like it or not, that's the way it works in the Trek universe.
Thats the result of not being fully accepted by Vulcan society and being unable to blend into human society because of his Vulcan upbringing. The "halves" are an over simplification. Spock in many ways is more Vulcan than a full Vulcan as an act of overcompensation for his "human half"

TOS established that the Vulcans are/were a very violent race saved from destruction by the teachings of Surak. The emotional control is learned, not innate.

The Spock of "WNMHGB" is somewhat different than the Spock we see in TOS proper. A Spock more than willing to kill Gary.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2009, 01:18 AM   #21
Admiral_Young
Fleet Admiral
 
Admiral_Young's Avatar
 
Location: Gallifrey
View Admiral_Young's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Sarek does not defend his wife from the comments made by the Council because he is a junior member of the body and probably would have been scolded for making such an emotional outburst in front of his colleauges. The audio book and book kind of hint at this as well as flesh out Sarek's character. Indeed, it would have been illogical for Sarek to have defended his wife even at the Councillers racist remarks. I find it more surprising that Sarek does outburst when Spock says he declines the Council's offer of admission to the Science Academy. At least he does in the audio book( Zack Quinto does an awesome job reading it!).
__________________
Admiral Young
Chief of Operations

Ignoring the The Last Stand since 2011.
Admiral_Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 03:05 AM   #22
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
Spock's hybrid nature and struggle to reconcile his Human and Vulcan halves has been integral to the character since WNMHGB.

Like it or not, that's the way it works in the Trek universe.
Which has always been convoluted logic if the Vulcan half is likely the greater source for emotional volatility. But I guess you can hammer the logic into shape if you assume that Vulcans would have a motive to blame any instability in Spock on the human half.

And what if Spock himself realized he was, if anything, less volatile than the Vulcans around him? He's always had that "this is such complete fucking bullshit" aura about him, especially when around other Vulcans (Quinto certainly nailed that aspect of the character).
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 03:24 AM   #23
Kelso
Vice Admiral
 
Kelso's Avatar
 
Location: On the destruct button until the last minute!
View Kelso's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Whatever emotional volatility Vulcans might have had in the ancient past, by the 23rd century Spock's Vulcan half would have been his source of intellectual and emotional control. Or that's what all of the characters on the show believed... which is what matters.

At any rate, the science minister certainly wasn't speaking out of line.
Kelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 03:40 AM   #24
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
Whatever emotional volatility Vulcans might have had in the ancient past, by the 23rd century Spock's Vulcan half would have been his source of intellectual and emotional control. Or that's what all of the characters on the show believed... which is what matters.

At any rate, the science minister certainly wasn't speaking out of line.
His Vulcan culture, but not his Vulcan genetics. It takes discipline, not the happenstance of genetics.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 03:52 AM   #25
pookha
Admiral
 
pookha's Avatar
 
Location: pookha
View pookha's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
Whatever emotional volatility Vulcans might have had in the ancient past, by the 23rd century Spock's Vulcan half would have been his source of intellectual and emotional control. Or that's what all of the characters on the show believed... which is what matters.

At any rate, the science minister certainly wasn't speaking out of line.

it was what spock wanted to others to believe and perhaps even himself.

but from amok time on we saw that things were a lot m,ore hinky and complex..

as nerys said it was culture and lot of intense discipline that made the vulcans what they were.
and not genetics.
__________________
avatar by
?
pookha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 04:32 AM   #26
Kelso
Vice Admiral
 
Kelso's Avatar
 
Location: On the destruct button until the last minute!
View Kelso's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

While I have no doubt that the Vulcan emotional control was the result of a great deal of study and meditation... both the show and the movies clearly indicated (or stated outright) that there was also a biological component.
Kelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 04:43 AM   #27
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

One that can be easily stripped away by spores, viruses,time travel or the need to mate
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 04:56 AM   #28
jkayd
Ensign
 
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Sarek does not defend his wife from the comments made by the Council because he is a junior member of the body and probably would have been scolded for making such an emotional outburst in front of his colleauges. The audio book and book kind of hint at this as well as flesh out Sarek's character. Indeed, it would have been illogical for Sarek to have defended his wife even at the Councillers racist remarks. I find it more surprising that Sarek does outburst when Spock says he declines the Council's offer of admission to the Science Academy. At least he does in the audio book( Zack Quinto does an awesome job reading it!).
Yes, I guess he was forced to tolerate racism for the sake of "logic". Still, I think Sarek is kind of a jerk and don't get why she married him. There's just no excuse for his behavior - his treatment of spock, his belief that humans are inferior, etc. This relationship worked only because Amanda was the one that made all the sacrifices - or maybe Vulcan didn't allow divorce?
jkayd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 05:00 AM   #29
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

jkayd wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Sarek does not defend his wife from the comments made by the Council because he is a junior member of the body and probably would have been scolded for making such an emotional outburst in front of his colleauges. The audio book and book kind of hint at this as well as flesh out Sarek's character. Indeed, it would have been illogical for Sarek to have defended his wife even at the Councillers racist remarks. I find it more surprising that Sarek does outburst when Spock says he declines the Council's offer of admission to the Science Academy. At least he does in the audio book( Zack Quinto does an awesome job reading it!).
Yes, I guess he was forced to tolerate racism for the sake of "logic". Still, I think Sarek is kind of a jerk and don't get why she married him. There's just no excuse for his behavior - his treatment of spock, his belief that humans are inferior, etc. This relationship worked only because Amanda was the one that made all the sacrifices - or maybe Vulcan didn't allow divorce?
Judging by what happens at their weddings, I can't imagine divorce is too popular.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 05:05 AM   #30
pookha
Admiral
 
pookha's Avatar
 
Location: pookha
View pookha's Twitter Profile
Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
While I have no doubt that the Vulcan emotional control was the result of a great deal of study and meditation... both the show and the movies clearly indicated (or stated outright) that there was also a biological component.
really...
how to then explain the children in yesteryear.
that more then anything shows it was mostly learned and nature.

remember even sarek in babel said vulcans had to meditate each day...
__________________
avatar by
?
pookha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
amanda grayson, sarek

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.