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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 15 2009, 02:53 AM   #1
jkayd
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Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

In the Vulcan Science Council scene after one of the vulcans insults Amanda, Spock looks at his father as if expecting a response. Instead, Sarek does nothing and Spock is the one that steps up and puts them in their place. I'm annoyed by this. He falls in love and marries a human woman, but doesn't defend her when his people disrespect her (which apparently happened a lot). What's wrong with him?
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Old September 15 2009, 03:04 AM   #2
iluthradanar
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

I wondered that myself. I even wrote a fanfic that had Spock furious, even if he doesn't show it, at his father for not defending his mother. They made it appear that Spock refused their appointment because of what they said, whereas in TOS, do we really know, except he once mentioed that being in Star Fleet afforded better opportunities to learn but was that it?
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Old September 15 2009, 03:14 AM   #3
gastrof
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

What kills me about that is these people with the whole "IDIC" thing casually insult Amanda, and apparently say just enough at home ("behind closed doors") so that their untrained children just as casually speak openly with contempt of humans, even calling an innocent human woman a prostitute.

So much for the "I beg forgiveness" stuff when emotion is shown.

I guess the whole Stonn/T'Pring thing makes a lot more sense now. Maybe they're a little more the norm than the exception.

I'm disappointed in the Vulcans, at this point.
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Old September 15 2009, 03:19 AM   #4
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

jkayd wrote: View Post
In the Vulcan Science Council scene after one of the vulcans insults Amanda, Spock looks at his father as if expecting a response. Instead, Sarek does nothing and Spock is the one that steps up and puts them in their place. I'm annoyed by this. He falls in love and marries a human woman, but doesn't defend her when his people disrespect her (which apparently happened a lot). What's wrong with him?
Actually, that was the Vulcan High Council, a body apparently charged both with overseeing Vulcan's cultural heritage in the form of the katric arcs and with overseeing the operations of the Vulcan Science Academy.

And I'm not too surprised; Sarek was always a bit of a jackass in TOS. He goes and conceives a Human-Vulcan hybrid, but consistently engages in what can only be described as emotional abuse against Spock when Spock does not live up to his perfect ideals of logic and Vulcanness.
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Old September 15 2009, 03:26 AM   #5
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

What bugged me was the shit-eating on the Vulcan woman's face. Nice acting there.

Sarek not defending Amanda could be seen as a nod to Vulcan logic, though: any defense would betray an emotional attachment he could not afford to reveal.
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Old September 15 2009, 03:32 AM   #6
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
any defense would betray an emotional attachment he could not afford to reveal.
Vulcans love their wives too...even if those wives are also Vulcan.
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Old September 15 2009, 06:25 AM   #7
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
any defense would betray an emotional attachment he could not afford to reveal.
Vulcans love their wives too...even if those wives are also Vulcan.
True, but I don't think they're allowed to show it. Plus it would be illogical to fight with the Council because, to put it mildly, they're set in their ways.
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Old September 15 2009, 12:52 PM   #8
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

It was a display of restraint that assured Sarek maintained his dignity and place in the 'country club'.

To Spock, and other humans, it would appear a display of weak-will and cowardice.

What I'm fascinated by is Amanda's nonreaction to her husband's ignoring of all the back-sniping and shunning, because she surely couldn't have missed it. Even if she 'knew' his Vulcan ideas of logic and control, no defense had to sting after a while. Either she really was a saint and selfless in her love, or just too beat down by Vulcan to plot effective escape for herself and her son-because I, personally, would have been out of there before Spock cut teeth.
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Old September 15 2009, 01:24 PM   #9
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

It MAY have simply been logical. IDIC or no IDIC, it seems that humans in general have lower IQs and lesser physical abilities than most vulcans. That a vulcan/human hybrid could be the intellectual match of a pure-blooded vulcan may have been genuinely surprising.

I doubt that most vulcans are truly racist against humans, at any rate. They formed an alliance with us, after all. They must see some merit. As to the "human whore" insult by the vulcan bully, remember that he was intentionally trying to provoke an emotional response. His words may not have reflected his true opinion.
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Old September 15 2009, 02:25 PM   #10
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post

<snip>

Sarek not defending Amanda could be seen as a nod to Vulcan logic, though: any defense would betray an emotional attachment he could not afford to reveal.
Agreed~this scene also adds to the bad feelings between Spock and his father...which we had heard about in TOS and TNG but never really "quite" understood.
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Old September 15 2009, 03:27 PM   #11
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
What bugged me was the shit-eating on the Vulcan woman's face. Nice acting there.

Sarek not defending Amanda could be seen as a nod to Vulcan logic, though: any defense would betray an emotional attachment he could not afford to reveal.
Makes sense.
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Old September 16 2009, 03:08 AM   #12
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

barnaclelapse wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
What bugged me was the shit-eating on the Vulcan woman's face. Nice acting there.

Sarek not defending Amanda could be seen as a nod to Vulcan logic, though: any defense would betray an emotional attachment he could not afford to reveal.
Makes sense.

i have also wondered if this was supposed to have been a final test of spock.
he may have been allowed to have even defended his heritage in a logical manner.


it might have been an outgrowth of the incident from his childhood.
were he beat the other boy to a pulp for insulting his mother.

so they science council wanted to see just how far had he come.
would he have an emotional outburst..
ignore the insult.. or as noted above give a logical defense about humanity.

sarek may have been aware of this.

evidently indeed amanda was held in high esteem by those higher up considering she was part of the effort to preserve the katra's.

maybe some vulcans like to use this as a tatic to judge..
tpau seems to do it in amok time.
at first she is very dismissive and insulting about kirk and bones.

but once they show that they will stand by spock no matter what she compliments him on his choice of companions .
Spock chose his friends well
(frankly i find the choice of "friend" interesting.
an acknowledgement of how special each is to the other)

then possibly saves kirk's career by putting out that request for enterprise.

vulcans are simply very complicated.
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Old September 16 2009, 03:11 AM   #13
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Sarek not defending Amanda could be seen as a nod to Vulcan logic, though: any defense would betray an emotional attachment he could not afford to reveal.
Makes sense.
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Old September 16 2009, 03:19 AM   #14
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

I'm not sure that Sarek had anything to defend. Having a human mother would be a disadvantage to be overcome in Vulcan society... as Spock would be more prone to emotion. The Vulcan was being logical.

Spock saw it differently, of course, because he had a human mother. If anything, Spock's reaction proved that the Vulcan was correct.
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Old September 16 2009, 03:24 AM   #15
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Kelso wrote: View Post
I'm not sure that Sarek had anything to defend. Having a human mother would be a disadvantage to be overcome in Vulcan society... as Spock would be more prone to emotion. The Vulcan was being logical.

Spock saw it differently, of course, because he had a human mother. If anything, Spock's reaction proved that the Vulcan was correct.
Indeed.
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