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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old October 16 2009, 08:08 AM   #1
Infern0
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please can someone explain to me slipstream?

I know some ships have it, but i don't know the back-story on it.

How did they develop it, and how fast is it?
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Old October 16 2009, 10:27 AM   #2
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

Quantum slipstream drive was introduced in VGR's season 4 finale 'Hope and Fear'. it was alien tech that a bad guy tried to dupe the crew into using to deliver them to the Borg. B'Elanna apparently downloaded the specs as it was reintroduced in 'Timeless' in season 5, with her having been developing a drive to use on Voyager. Starfleet had also been developing it before Voyager left.

The drive Voyager had didn't entirely work. It got them so far before the slipstream destabilised.

In the novels, Starfleet's been working on it for a few more years and now got it mostly working. prototypes were fitted to the Vesta class ships, including Aventine.

as for how fast it is, it's really, really, really fast. like 1.6 million times the speed of light fast. a test of Dauntless, the alien ship with it, they traveled 15 light years in 5 minutes.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Quan...ipstream_drive
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Old October 16 2009, 10:43 AM   #3
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

Hmmm. Kind of makes me wonder if the Narada had slipstream...
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Old October 16 2009, 01:52 PM   #4
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

According to Seven in VOY: "Hope and Fear" it's pretty much the same as Borg Transwarp (it used the same VFX). That explains why the Borg don't use it after they assimilate the Dauntless.

According to Greater Than the Sum (which is loaded with technobabble about it), it's very different.

The USS Aventine has it.

The Nerada was seen swimming though the same SG-1 Hyperspace-style nuWarp as the Enterprise in the movie. If anything it would have had Borg Transwarp (see: Countdown), but if it used it the Enterprise would never have beaten it to Earth (although some claim the nuEnterprise has Transwarp, which is BS).

Last edited by King Daniel Into Darkness; October 16 2009 at 01:53 PM. Reason: "Birg"? who are the "Birg"? It's the B-O-R-G!!!
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Old October 16 2009, 02:22 PM   #5
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

The speed of slipstream has been portrayed very, very inconsistently. "Hope and Fear" claimed it would let them cover the 60,000 light-years to home in three months, but "Timeless" portrayed it as far, far faster, requiring only minutes to cover 10,000 light-years. VGR: Unworthy puts it closer to the "Timeless" version, requiring only a couple of days to reach the Delta Quadrant.
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Old October 16 2009, 03:45 PM   #6
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post

The Nerada was seen swimming though the same SG-1 Hyperspace-style nuWarp as the Enterprise in the movie. If anything it would have had Borg Transwarp (see: Countdown), but if it used it the Enterprise would never have beaten it to Earth (although some claim the nuEnterprise has Transwarp, which is BS).
Actually I just think is was a new effect for standard warp drive.
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Old October 16 2009, 03:45 PM   #7
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

Christopher wrote: View Post
The speed of slipstream has been portrayed very, very inconsistently. "Hope and Fear" claimed it would let them cover the 60,000 light-years to home in three months, but "Timeless" portrayed it as far, far faster, requiring only minutes to cover 10,000 light-years. VGR: Unworthy puts it closer to the "Timeless" version, requiring only a couple of days to reach the Delta Quadrant.
Kirsten could have been referring to the Beta/Delta border rather than Delta proper in that instance. But essentially, yes, it has either been described as approximately 20,000 light years per month or 1,000 light years per minute. Perhaps Torres was able to improve on it or maybe Captain Hernandez provided a little assistance. Because of the few instances there should be a way of reconciling it. Perhaps even that Arturis (or whever his name was in Hope and Fear) lied (as he did in everything else) about just how fast it could go.

IIRC, Kes pushed Voyager 10,000 light years closer to home, beyond Borg territory, and the Dauntless covered that distance and more in only a few minutes when Arturis tried to get Janeway and the others assimilated, so my betting is that he lied his ass off.
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Old October 16 2009, 04:29 PM   #8
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
Kirsten could have been referring to the Beta/Delta border rather than Delta proper in that instance.
The book specifies a distance of roughly 40,000 light-years, which would be 2 months' journey using Dauntless-type slipstream. It's definitely much closer to the "Timeless" version (and yes, perhaps we can assume B'Elanna improved on the Dauntless tech; perhaps Arturis deliberately gave them a powered-down ship and B'Elanna discerned how to correct for that).


IIRC, Kes pushed Voyager 10,000 light years closer to home, beyond Borg territory, and the Dauntless covered that distance and more in only a few minutes when Arturis tried to get Janeway and the others assimilated, so my betting is that he lied his ass off.
My interpretation is that the reason Kes pushed the ship 9500 light-years is because that portion of Borg territory was over 9000 ly across, so she had to push them that far to get them past it. So the nearest border of Borg territory as of "Hope and Fear" would be much, much closer than their starting point in "The Gift."
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Old October 16 2009, 08:55 PM   #9
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

Kes pushed them 9,500ly from the North West Passage to what we can assume was well past Borg territory, not just out of it by a few hundred ly.

We don't know how far Voyager travelled except given what's in Star Charts and that does not help one bit.
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Old October 16 2009, 10:14 PM   #10
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
Kes pushed them 9,500ly from the North West Passage to what we can assume was well past Borg territory, not just out of it by a few hundred ly.
Hmm, maybe you're right; "The Gift" does have Janeway mention her refusal to turn "back into Borg territory," implying they've already passed it -- even though I believe that contradicts what was stated in "Scorpion, Part I" about how expansive that territory was.

We don't know how far Voyager travelled except given what's in Star Charts and that does not help one bit.
How far Voyager travelled in what instance? If you mean how far Kes pushed them, that's explicitly stated as 9.5 thousand light-years.
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Old October 16 2009, 10:30 PM   #11
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

Christopher wrote: View Post
BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
Kes pushed them 9,500ly from the North West Passage to what we can assume was well past Borg territory, not just out of it by a few hundred ly.
Hmm, maybe you're right; "The Gift" does have Janeway mention her refusal to turn "back into Borg territory," implying they've already passed it -- even though I believe that contradicts what was stated in "Scorpion, Part I" about how expansive that territory was.
I think something important to bear in mind is that the Borg are unlikely to maintain fixed, marked borders. "Borg space" is probably a very amorphous concept that basically refers to any area of nearby space in which Borg vessels are active; as such, a vessel like Voyager might be located within, say, a vast stretch of sectors in which nobody but the Borg are active, yet be in a sector in which no Borg ships are present at the time. Like being in an empty room in someone else's apartment.
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Old October 17 2009, 12:14 AM   #12
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

Christopher wrote: View Post
We don't know how far Voyager travelled except given what's in Star Charts and that does not help one bit.
How far Voyager travelled in what instance? If you mean how far Kes pushed them, that's explicitly stated as 9.5 thousand light-years.
I was referring to the distance between "The Gift" and "Hope and Fear." Star Charts has the distance travelled, including that of "The Gift", as 10,238ly that year. So if the Dauntless travels at approx 1,000ly per minute, as it has been suggested in Unworthy due to the time/distance involved, then even a few minutes would take Janeway and co into Borg territory. I think that 1k ly/per minute is a canon standard for slipstream based on what we saw rather than what was said.
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Old October 17 2009, 02:33 AM   #13
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

I don't get why we're assuming slipstream only has one speed. Warp has a whole continuum of speeds; why can't there be lower and higher "slipstream factors?" The question "how fast is slipstream?" may be effectively meaningless. How fast is a car? It's as fast as you choose, up to the limits of its performance, and some cars have a higher maximum than others.
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Old October 17 2009, 07:25 AM   #14
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

In short, one of the worst ideas Voyager inflicted on Trek canon.
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Old October 17 2009, 07:30 AM   #15
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Re: please can someone explain to me slipstream?

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
In short, one of the worst ideas Voyager inflicted on Trek canon.
But one that, if used sparingly, can open up interesting new avenues for TrekLit.
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