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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old February 3 2010, 01:36 AM   #301
Arrqh
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

sojourner wrote: View Post
^The fear with this new plan is that now NASA will be canceled one small program at a time. He offsets public outcry by saying "see, I increased the budget. I just got rid of that bad Constellation program. I am pro space". But later on he can slowly decrease that budget by killing small individual programs.

<crosses fingers that this is not true>
I really don't see how there's any evidence to support that fear.

I posted this elsewhere, but here's BA's take on this: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ba...dget-unveiled/

The good news for sure is an increase of $6 billion over the next five years. It stresses new technology and innovation (to the tune of over $1.5 billion), which is also good. A lot of NASAís successes have been from pushing the limits on what can be done. It also stresses Earth science, which isnít surprising at all; Obama appears to understand the importance of our environmental impact, including global warming. So thatís still good news.
The very very good news is that half that money ó half, folks, 3.2 billion dollars ó is going to science. Yeehaw! The release specifically notes telescopes and missions to the Moon and planets. That, my friends, sounds fantastic.

Perhaps itís fitting that this news is released on the anniversary of the loss of Columbia ó itís been seven years since that day when the orbiter broke up upon re-entry. A very good case can be made that complacence played a big role in that event. When it comes to space exploration, we must never rest on our laurels, we must never have the arrogance to think we have it all under control, and we must never forget that to explore means to push ahead into unknown territory. That is the lesson of Columbia.
The Moon, Mars, and all of space await us. This new budget may not be perfect, but I strongly suspect itís the best we can do, and far, far better than the course we currently have laid out. If we donít push for this now, we may never go back.
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Old February 3 2010, 02:35 AM   #302
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Regardless of all this talk about whatever Nasa is going to do, China is going to take the lead. Period. The money thats gonna be wasted on this light rail nonsense could have given Nasa what it needed.. a true pity.. I'm sure JFK would be proud.
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Old February 3 2010, 03:00 AM   #303
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Rulius wrote: View Post
Regardless of all this talk about whatever Nasa is going to do, China is going to take the lead. Period. The money thats gonna be wasted on this light rail nonsense could have given Nasa what it needed.. a true pity.. I'm sure JFK would be proud.
How so? The next thing the Chinese will do is to launch their Tianggong space laboratoy at some point during the early 2010s. With a total mass of merely 8.5 tons, the Tiangong is only a dwarf compared to the ISS (= 400 tons!). Any concrete plans for a manned lunar landing don't exist yet and if and when it will come to that is sheer speculation. China's potential of becoming a "superpower" any time soon is a usually overrated anway IMO.

I guess a Chinese moon landing would be the only thing that would actually lead to a serious American moon/Mars program though... just like Apollo was a result of Sputnik/Vostok. So supporters of manned U.S. mission to Mars should better pray that the Chinese will land a man on the Moon "soon". Because that's the problem: The Apollo moon landings were for a large part politically motivated. However, at the moment there's no pressing political reason to send men to Moon or Mars.
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Old February 3 2010, 03:57 AM   #304
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Rulius wrote: View Post
Regardless of all this talk about whatever Nasa is going to do, China is going to take the lead. Period. The money thats gonna be wasted on this light rail nonsense could have given Nasa what it needed.. a true pity.. I'm sure JFK would be proud.
JFK really didn't care about space. He just wanted to beat the Russians to the moon.
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Old February 3 2010, 04:31 AM   #305
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Rulius wrote: View Post
Regardless of all this talk about whatever Nasa is going to do, China is going to take the lead. Period. The money thats gonna be wasted on this light rail nonsense could have given Nasa what it needed.. a true pity.. I'm sure JFK would be proud.
The next person to stand on the moon's surface will be speaking Mandarin.
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Old February 3 2010, 04:32 AM   #306
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Mysterion wrote: View Post
Rulius wrote: View Post
Regardless of all this talk about whatever Nasa is going to do, China is going to take the lead. Period. The money thats gonna be wasted on this light rail nonsense could have given Nasa what it needed.. a true pity.. I'm sure JFK would be proud.
The next person to stand on the moon's surface will be speaking Mandarin.
That was probably the case anyway.
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Old February 3 2010, 05:59 AM   #307
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

I really don't see how there's any evidence to support that fear.

I posted this elsewhere, but here's BA's take on this: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ba...dget-unveiled/
Yes, I read that. I already knew the breakdown of how the money is to be spent. The question is how easy is it to cancel one of those little less "headline worthy" programs? NASA may be killed piecemeal.
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Old February 3 2010, 06:02 AM   #308
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

It's possible, I just don't see why you'd think that was likely.
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Old February 3 2010, 03:16 PM   #309
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Mysterion wrote: View Post
Rulius wrote: View Post
Regardless of all this talk about whatever Nasa is going to do, China is going to take the lead. Period. The money thats gonna be wasted on this light rail nonsense could have given Nasa what it needed.. a true pity.. I'm sure JFK would be proud.
The next person to stand on the moon's surface will be speaking Mandarin.
Does it matter what the language of the next person standing is? I don't give two shits if s/he speaks Mandarin, French, Swahili, or Canadian.
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Old February 3 2010, 05:26 PM   #310
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Lindley wrote: View Post
It's possible, I just don't see why you'd think that was likely.
politicians.
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Old February 3 2010, 06:18 PM   #311
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

as opposed to the countless politicians who benefit from the pork generated from the boondoogle known as constellation? or who have no actual intention of returning us to the moon?
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Old February 3 2010, 07:33 PM   #312
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

john titor wrote: View Post
If ftl isn't possible then we cut welfare and incentivize people to support and get into the aeronautics industry. Incentivization can take the form of curtailing civil rights if people don't want to build spaceships. We have the tech, we just don't have the willpower and this can come from making America leaner and meaner, by taking away rights.
Which civil rights do you suggest that we take away to encourage people to build spaceships?
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Old February 4 2010, 11:06 PM   #313
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Argus Skyhawk wrote: View Post
john titor wrote: View Post
If ftl isn't possible then we cut welfare and incentivize people to support and get into the aeronautics industry. Incentivization can take the form of curtailing civil rights if people don't want to build spaceships. We have the tech, we just don't have the willpower and this can come from making America leaner and meaner, by taking away rights.
Which civil rights do you suggest that we take away to encourage people to build spaceships?
Eh...the 3rd Amendment. If people don't want to fly into space we'll stick a Drill Sergeant in their kitchen.
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Old February 5 2010, 05:03 AM   #314
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Hey, Harry Saxon curtailed civil rights, and he got a fleet of black-hole powered rocketships that could've easily conquered the universe in just over a year. There's merit to the idea.
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Old February 5 2010, 07:24 PM   #315
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

^You mean that bloke that looks like the Prime Minister?
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