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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 15 2009, 11:48 PM   #181
M'Sharak
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

startrekrcks wrote: View Post
You just don't appreciate Star Trek XI
It was a fairly well-reasoned post, and he's entitled to say what he thinks. You are not required to agree, but you also don't need to be posting things like "stop criticizing the movie" or "you just don't appreciate Star Trek XI" in response to everyone who thinks differently about the movie than you do. It's just a different opinion; let it go.
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Old October 15 2009, 11:55 PM   #182
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Disillusioned wrote: View Post
I saw nothing high concept about the new movie. It was basically just a generic sci-fi action popcorn muncher.
Yeah, that's how I saw it too. That's not to say those films are necessarily a bad thing, but it really is a sorry state of affairs when Star Trek is reduced to popcorn muncher status.
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Old October 16 2009, 03:18 AM   #183
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Yeah, don't get me wrong, sometimes I like those (The Fifth Element for example), but I tend to think that Star Trek should strive to be a bit more cerebral at the same time. Of course the other extreme would be to be too cerebral, like say The Motion Picture. I hate to sound like a pretentious movie critic, but I tend to like more balance. To be fair, it's hard to define what works and what doesn't, which actually makes it kind of hard for me to explain why I feel a movie worked or it didn't.
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Old October 16 2009, 06:35 AM   #184
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

No, it should have been a straight up prequel in the prime timeline with no " Old Spock "( not that I didn't enjoy him or the movie) and no Romulans.( not that I didn't like them either) If I had my way, I would have focused on young Kirk and young Spock much like they did in the movie. then movie to the Academy and a longer Kobyoshi Maru scene. Have Mcoy come in while Kirk is at the academy, then end with Kirk and Spock and Mcoy save the day and Kirk and crew ending up on the enterprise some years later. You could have that spread over two or three movies much like SW prequels, but spend very little time with boy Kirk. Make Pike the hero in the first one and establish friendships and everyone gets assigned to different ships. The second one a huge threat comes about that involves multiple ships: Enterprise, Faragout, The Bad guys. The third movie caries over from the second( POTC style ) and involves the bad guys still on the run and like I said Kirk saves the day and in the very end we see Kirk assigned to the Enterprise after Pike is incompcitated. No " canon violation" and all is conected together. The gaps are filled. I would update the tech a little and make it look like a mix between Enterprise and the Kelvin, the TOS look would be updated, but recognizeable.
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Old October 16 2009, 12:06 PM   #185
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

I could have lived with it either way. A fresh reboot might have been better though just to give it complete creative freedom.

Disillusioned wrote: View Post
Of course the other extreme would be to be too cerebral, like say The Motion Picture.
Theres that cerebral thing again. TMP was dull, not clever. None of it made sense, lacked tachnical/scientific validity and failed to make up for these short comings with any form of entertainment value. I'm grateful that the lessons of TMP were learned in one film.
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Old October 16 2009, 12:21 PM   #186
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Disillusioned wrote: View Post
usually all we'd ever see from official publications is how awesome everything is and how "we're all very pleased."
That is the purpose of an official publication: to hype the series or movie it's promoting. If you want unhampered, independent critiques then you buy an independent magazine.

For example, when "Starlog" had a license to do official ST movie magazines and posterbooks, they hyped the movies in the official products and gave quite balanced positive and negative critiques in the regular monthly magazine.
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Old October 16 2009, 11:59 PM   #187
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

HunterB5446 wrote: View Post
No, it should have been a straight up prequel in the prime timeline with no " Old Spock "( not that I didn't enjoy him or the movie) and no Romulans.( not that I didn't like them either) If I had my way, I would have focused on young Kirk and young Spock much like they did in the movie. then movie to the Academy and a longer Kobyoshi Maru scene. Have Mcoy come in while Kirk is at the academy, then end with Kirk and Spock and Mcoy save the day and Kirk and crew ending up on the enterprise some years later. You could have that spread over two or three movies much like SW prequels, but spend very little time with boy Kirk. Make Pike the hero in the first one and establish friendships and everyone gets assigned to different ships. The second one a huge threat comes about that involves multiple ships: Enterprise, Faragout, The Bad guys. The third movie caries over from the second( POTC style ) and involves the bad guys still on the run and like I said Kirk saves the day and in the very end we see Kirk assigned to the Enterprise after Pike is incompcitated. No " canon violation" and all is conected together. The gaps are filled. I would update the tech a little and make it look like a mix between Enterprise and the Kelvin, the TOS look would be updated, but recognizeable.
I would have rather had a prequel or retelling, too, but to be fair that wasn't the question. Either way I don't think I would have started out with the crew all being so young if the intention was to get them all together on the Enterprise at the end. In some ways, the idea of focusing on say just the big three when they are younger does appeal to me, but it would be difficult to pull off and still keep it entertaining for people just out to see a movie.

Butters wrote: View Post
Theres that cerebral thing again. TMP was dull, not clever. None of it made sense, lacked tachnical/scientific validity and failed to make up for these short comings with any form of entertainment value. I'm grateful that the lessons of TMP were learned in one film.
I have to disagree for the most part. Yes, it was dull, but in the same way as 2001: A Space Odyssey was. It wasn't as cerebral as 2001, but it was still pretty cerebral in that it was focused way more on philosophy and religion more than a story most people would find interesting.
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Old October 26 2009, 12:14 AM   #188
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

I think that what perhaps qualifies as cerebral differs for everyone, in much the same way it's been observed that it can be hard to describe the reasons quite why people like what they like.

However, while I certainly feel that highly cerebral is not an accusation that can be aimed fully at the new film, I also don't feel it can be aimed at TMP either.

But it depends on how one reacts to the questions it attempted to raise. I don't think it asked anything new, or in a new way and as a result of also not being able to provide any answers (because there are none) it ended up saying nothing within the context of a very dull film that looked very good, but had little else batting for it.
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Old October 26 2009, 03:45 AM   #189
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
barnaclelapse wrote: View Post
I think you could claim some of those as fan service, yes, but I don't think Nimoy's place in the film or his performance were fan service in the least
Which is shame because fan service is exactly what it was. Why do you think they didn't just use old age prosthetics on Quinto?
Right, because having two actors in a scene together (Quinto and Nimoy) is a much less satisfying experience than having Quinto act into thin air against a CGI double of himself.

No wait, it isn't.

I thought their scene together was pure gold, much better with two actors than if they had duped Quinto somehow.
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Old October 26 2009, 10:42 AM   #190
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

To the original question: no, not to my taste. I liked the nod to TOS and I've regarded it as equivalent to a reboot since the first time I saw the movie.

Vigilance wrote: View Post
Right, because having two actors in a scene together (Quinto and Nimoy) is a much less satisfying experience than having Quinto act into thin air against a CGI double of himself.

No wait, it isn't.

I thought their scene together was pure gold, much better with two actors than if they had duped Quinto somehow.
Agreed - I've never seen an old age make up that was truly convincing. Besides, using Nimoy they had it all - someone for ZQ to act against, a convincing old Spock and something for the old fans.

Not to mention a lead in to TOS for newbies.
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Old October 26 2009, 11:38 AM   #191
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Vigilance wrote: View Post
Right, because having two actors in a scene together (Quinto and Nimoy) is a much less satisfying experience than having Quinto act into thin air against a CGI double of himself.
I never said that : /

I said it was fan service. Which it was. Hence why you found it satisfying.
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Old October 26 2009, 11:42 AM   #192
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Clancy_s wrote: View Post
using Nimoy they had it all - someone for ZQ to act against, a convincing old Spock and something for the old fans.
Exactly. They could've quite easily used Quinto in make-up or found some old guy to play Spock, but the 'fans' would've had a fit.
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Old October 26 2009, 11:47 AM   #193
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Clancy_s wrote: View Post
using Nimoy they had it all - someone for ZQ to act against, a convincing old Spock and something for the old fans.
Exactly. They could've quite easily used Quinto in make-up or found some old guy to play Spock, but the 'fans' would've had a fit.
Quinto in old age prosthetics, if done well would have made more sense than just getting some older guy to play Spock.

For me personally, it made more sense for them to have Nimoy come in and play, though one could say I'm not being impartial since I quite enjoyed seeing him there, even though my only experience of watching him is really from the TOS movies and appearance in TNG, rather than his appearances in TOS.

Fan service that actually worked I would say. Fair enough if it didn't work for others. Besides, Nimoy has a venerable presence, though I can't tell if that's just me as a Trek fan talking or not.
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Old October 26 2009, 12:39 PM   #194
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

SilentP wrote: View Post
Fan service that actually worked I would say. Fair enough if it didn't work for others.
Yep
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What I feel about it is irrelevant. Fan service is both good and bad depending on what side of the fence of the you fall.
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Old October 26 2009, 12:56 PM   #195
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Re: Should it have been a straight reboot?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Clancy_s wrote: View Post
using Nimoy they had it all - someone for ZQ to act against, a convincing old Spock and something for the old fans.
Exactly. They could've quite easily used Quinto in make-up or found some old guy to play Spock, but the 'fans' would've had a fit.

I still don't understand why anyone would WANT Quinto in makeup or some other actor to play Spock when Nimoy is still alive and fully capable of playing the part he originated. To use any other person simply doesnt make sense.
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