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Old September 12 2009, 04:01 PM   #106
Praetor
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Joining this one in progress. It should be interesting.

So far (shockingly to those who may have read the Voyager thread) I find myself mostly in agreement with TheGodBen but not completely.

"Broken Bow" was a mixed bag, a lot like "Caretaker" IMO. (I won't go into my specific issues with the format of the ENT series and the creators conception of the way the universe was to be depicted.) Even ignoring those, like TheGodBen, I feel that a lot of "Broken Bow" didn't really go anywhere and was just trying to be epic without really having a plan. And I find that annoying and sloppy.

I'd have rated "Fight or Flight" a bit lower, simply because I was very annoyed that they chose to predictably make Hoshi the character who was freaking out. "Strange New World" wasn't that bad, but I felt it had pacing issues. And of course, I loathe "Unexpected." When I first saw the preview, I thought to myself: "Will this be an interesting holy-crap-something-alien-happens episode, or a trying-to-be-wacky episode? And now we know.

Oh, and TGB, sorry you're sick, champ. Feel better.
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Old September 12 2009, 04:31 PM   #107
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I tried to write a review of The Andorian Incident but my brain feels like it is trapped in a cellophane bag and when I tried to collate my thoughts on the episode the best I could do was "I like Andorians".
"I like Andorians" serves quite well as a springboard for discussion.

So in the mean time please feel free to talk about whatever you wish so long as it doesn't involve alien rape.
What he said.

Feel better soon, TGB.
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Old September 12 2009, 06:04 PM   #108
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

I said a version of "I like Andorians" in my post too . You're all mean.

And I think we should all discuss The Andorian Incident to get TheGodBen's creative juices flowing. Or reviewing juices. Or whatever.

Here's what I liked:

-Jeffrey Combes as Shraan - I love how this guy can characterise each part so differently. Even though Weyoun could get angry and basically was in the position where no-one should be questioning his orders (in the same way Shraan is), they feel like different characters, and not because of the make-up. The scene that really got this across was the initial interrogation scene. Shraan seemed close to boiling point for the whole of it, but it's not until later on that you find out that that's him. Even more than normal Andorians, he literally is near to boiling the whole time.

-Andorian/Vulcan tension - these guys are perfectly opposed. Emotional vs. Logical, Militant vs. Pacifist (or so we're led to believe). I enjoyed the Vulcans being wrong as well. (Depending on your code of ethics, that one will be open to dispute).

-Archer/T'Pol tension - the bit where he basically questions her loyalty and then she stares him straight in the face to ask him when she's ever failed to follow one of his orders (and then steals the blanket...class!) is fantastic.

What I didn't like:

-Trip and Archer smashing up the monastery - and enjoying it too!

-Seeing the end coming from 4LY off - As soon as he said "That's the reliquary" I was like... "Yeah, and I'm Diana Ross".

I'd give it ****1/2, but it's not my thread so that doesn't matter!
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Old September 13 2009, 04:26 PM   #109
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I tried to write a review of The Andorian Incident but my brain feels like it is trapped in a cellophane bag and when I tried to collate my thoughts on the episode the best I could do was "I like Andorians".
Well, I for one would think that to be perfectly adequate.

Tallis Rhul wrote: View Post
Here's what I liked:
-Andorian/Vulcan tension - these guys are perfectly opposed. Emotional vs. Logical, Militant vs. Pacifist (or so we're led to believe). I enjoyed the Vulcans being wrong as well. (Depending on your code of ethics, that one will be open to dispute).

-Archer/T'Pol tension - the bit where he basically questions her loyalty and then she stares him straight in the face to ask him when she's ever failed to follow one of his orders (and then steals the blanket...class!) is fantastic.
I loved those things as well. There was also plenty of funny dialogue in that episode, like "I'm all ears. No offense." Overall, I must say, even this early, ENT is a lot funnier than I remembered it to be.
I also love the second scene where Archer is beaten up by the Andorians, just for the funny stuff he says.

Tallis Rhul wrote: View Post
What I didn't like:

-Trip and Archer smashing up the monastery - and enjoying it too!
Did they enjoy it? I didn't see it that way. Malcom was a bit reckless in blowing up the wall in the hall.
The first shot in the reliquary was fired by the Vulcan monk. After that, Archer, T'Pol and Trip had no choice but to fire back at the Andorians.
What I didn't like was how quick Archer was to hand over the information to the Andorians. Sure, the Vulcans spied on them, but they hadn't behaved exactly civilly towards Archer and his crew. So Archer should have concluded that the Vulcans might have good reasons for spying on them. Maybe his resentments towards Vulcans got the better of him. His behaviour towards T'Pol at that moment wasn't grand, either. Then again, he's still not sure whether he can trust her or not, so that explains that.

Tune back in for the next episode in this exciting thread: Will Godfrey Ben survive the Swine Flu?
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Old September 13 2009, 04:34 PM   #110
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Count Zero wrote: View Post
I loved those things as well. There was also plenty of funny dialogue in that episode, like "I'm all ears. No offense." Overall, I must say, even this early, ENT is a lot funnier than I remembered it to be.
In "Cease Fire", Archer tells Soval "No offence, but my ears are a lot less likely to draw fire then yours.", and then Soval asks T'pol "What is their fascination with our ears?" and T'pol replies "I believe they are jealous."
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Old September 13 2009, 06:37 PM   #111
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

apenpaap wrote: View Post
Count Zero wrote: View Post
I loved those things as well. There was also plenty of funny dialogue in that episode, like "I'm all ears. No offense." Overall, I must say, even this early, ENT is a lot funnier than I remembered it to be.
In "Cease Fire", Archer tells Soval "No offence, but my ears are a lot less likely to draw fire then yours.", and then Soval asks T'pol "What is their fascination with our ears?" and T'pol replies "I believe they are jealous."
I loved that little exchange
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Old September 13 2009, 06:42 PM   #112
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

It's too bad Soval had to go and ruin the moment.
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Old September 15 2009, 07:26 PM   #113
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Did they enjoy it? I didn't see it that way. Malcom was a bit reckless in blowing up the wall in the hall.
I wasn't specific enough, I meant where they jumped the Andorian originally. I seem to remember Trip having a bit of a smirk on his face, but that might just be my memory playing tricks on me ^^

And talking of humour - I LOVED the S2 ep where T'Pol is scanning a dead planet, finds microbes and (after being forced to watch Frankenstein) says "To quote Dr. Frankenstein, it's alive"... all with the whole Vulcan 'barely moving her face' thing XD. It was genius deadpan!
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Old September 15 2009, 08:36 PM   #114
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

What I didn't like was how quick Archer was to hand over the information to the Andorians. Sure, the Vulcans spied on them, but they hadn't behaved exactly civilly towards Archer and his crew. So Archer should have concluded that the Vulcans might have good reasons for spying on them. Maybe his resentments towards Vulcans got the better of him. His behaviour towards T'Pol at that moment wasn't grand, either. Then again, he's still not sure whether he can trust her or not, so that explains that.
I'm not sure why Archer should have given the Vulcans the benefit of the doubt. They let him get the crap beaten out of him twice, all the while lying about whether they were spying. He was willing to put it on the line to keep the Andorians from starting to kill the monks as they'd threatened, and the monks were like, Wow, humans take a licking and keep on ticking. Who knew. Plus? They smell.
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Old September 15 2009, 09:17 PM   #115
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Well, the Vulcans were Earth's only ally at that point and the Andorians didn't give the impression of being nice people to have an alliance with in the future.
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Old September 15 2009, 09:21 PM   #116
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

^That's true, Earth shouldn't have gone around blabbing about Vulcan's secret spy base, even if they were technically in the wrong...
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Old September 15 2009, 10:31 PM   #117
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

There are a lot of things the crew of Enterprise shouldn't have been doing... for example the more they annoyed the Klingons during this specific time period the more likely it would have been that they would have got Earth conquered...
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Old September 15 2009, 11:54 PM   #118
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

You would think the Vulcan alliance was pretty critical to Earth's security, considering how much of a minnow United Earth is on the galactic stage.
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Old September 16 2009, 12:12 AM   #119
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

JB2005 wrote: View Post
^That's true, Earth shouldn't have gone around blabbing about Vulcan's secret spy base, even if they were technically in the wrong...
"...technically in the wrong"...? There was a Vulcan/Andorian treaty, wasn't there? There was a big-ass listening station on P'Jem, wasn't there? Protected by "humanoid shields" who, as bluedana pointed out, blithely said nothing while their guests were being beaten up by their Andorian kidnappers?

Treaties are promises. They are expressions of mutual trust. When a treaty is signed by two races as a means of keeping them from trying to annihilate each other, it provides protection to both sides. One side cannot cavalierly dismiss the promise made, for whatever reason, without expecting (not to mention earning) potentially dire consequences if the violation is discovered. No matter who discovers it.

So the Andorians are suspicious bullies. Fine. But they have honor-- more than the Vulcans. The Andorians stuck to the treaty, and the Vulcans violated it.

T'Pol consistently demonstrated far more honor than most other Vulcans on Enterprise. The writers' choice to have her hand over her tricorder to Shran, rather than for a non-Vulcan to do it, illustrated the irony of the situation, as well as showing us T'Pol's sense of honor. As for Archer, he was trying to learn to trust the Vulcans, but they certainly didn't make it easy for him, considering their penchant for deception throughout the series. He came to trust T'Pol because she demonstrated her trustworthiness.
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Old September 16 2009, 02:58 PM   #120
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
So the Andorians are suspicious bullies. Fine. But they have honor-- more than the Vulcans. The Andorians stuck to the treaty, and the Vulcans violated it.
We don't know that. Beating up monks is probably a violation of the treaty, too. Besides, T'Pol mentioned that the Andorians had broken treaties in the past. We only got this side of the story. Later we learn that Andorians are in the business of torturing Vulcans they suspect of spying. I don't think they're the good guys here or honourable.
Foreign politics is usually an unpleasant, amoral business, even in the 22nd century. It's good thing they adressed this. I could give examples of today's world where nations that have treaties with each other or are even allies are spying on each other. But this is usually frowned upon in this forum so I'll just say that most people still wouldn't think it was ok for an ally to give up sensible information to someone perceived as a potential threat.
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