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Old January 22 2010, 10:18 PM   #931
Alidar Jarok
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen, I really want to comment on this one when I get a bit more time because your initial thoughts about the episode having to do with lowered expectations are very similar to mine. In the end, the negative points brought up are the same that everyone brings up. You attach slightly more vitriol to them than I do, but less than most others (I'd give the episode a star and a half and feel that, if they had two hours instead of one, they could have made the Enterprise plot more epic and at least passed Endgame if that says anything).

BTW, does anyone remember who spoiled the plot for everyone? I know it wasn't Morpheus (although he did chime in to confirm it). The furor at the time quite amazed me and I don't think anything has really compared to it on this board since (it was the good old days ).
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Old January 22 2010, 10:25 PM   #932
Kegg
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Issue number 3: Why The Pegasus?

I feel that The Pegasus is one of the best episodes of TNG because it combines three of my favourite things from television: Ron Moore's writing, Romulans and John Locke. I know The Pegasus well enough to know that this episode does not fit within that episode, and the others on this board who have experimented by editing these episodes together agree with my assumption. Once Admiral Pressman showed up in The Pegasus Riker became gravely serious as the situation weighed upon his conscience, whereas in TATV Riker is in a good mood and joking with Deanna on the holodeck. It's like adding oil to water; they don't mix and it makes you feel uneasy if you drink it.
I thought the choice was fairly obvious. They wanted to set the finale in the TNG TV series era, well, fine. But it's been over a decade since they went off the air, so even having the actors play their seventh season selves is pushing it but not as much as their fresh faced first season selves.

And well, who can you get? Uh, Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, maybe a vocal cameo from Brent Spiner... Right. Is there anything from season seven with these characters we could use? Incorporate into the story in some way? Something Trek fans liked? Can't be "All Good Things", that's Picard's story, and, uh, what else happened in the seventh season? That was good? Anyone?

So it does make its own internal logic, though in retrospect they shouldn have set it in the Nemesis or post-Nemesis era, as that's more believable age-wise (hey, say the Titan is a Galaxy-class starship or whatever) or if they did go the seventh season route, not to try and tie to the Pegasus. But whatever, made sense on paper.
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Old January 22 2010, 10:30 PM   #933
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
TRIP: Been a hell of a run, Malcolm. Never thought it would come to an end.
REED: All Good Things...
TRIP: Indeed, we have reached this ship's Endgame.
REED: Yes, but What You and I Leave Behind is a legacy that will endure for 9 centuries.
TRIP: I hear that.
REED: Turnabout Intruder!
TRIP: What?
REED: Oh, sorry, I thought I saw an invading alien for a second. It was just a shadow.
TRIP: Hmm.


Dear gods, TheGodBen, I love your reviews.
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Old January 22 2010, 11:15 PM   #934
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Kegg wrote: View Post

I thought the choice was fairly obvious. They wanted to set the finale in the TNG TV series era, well, fine. But it's been over a decade since they went off the air, so even having the actors play their seventh season selves is pushing it but not as much as their fresh faced first season selves.
If they wanted to tie it back to TNG, they should have done a follow-up to "A Matter of Time." Berlinghoff Rasmussen was supposed to be from the 22d century, after all. They could have shown how the time machine was stolen in the first place. If TNG casting was going to be a problem, they could have used clips and voice-overs.

Did this never occur to TPTB? Braga is obsessed with time travel, isn't he?

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
TRIP: Been a hell of a run, Malcolm. Never thought it would come to an end.
REED: All Good Things...
TRIP: Indeed, we have reached this ship's Endgame.
REED: Yes, but What You and I Leave Behind is a legacy that will endure for 9 centuries.
TRIP: I hear that.
REED: Turnabout Intruder!
TRIP: What?
REED: Oh, sorry, I thought I saw an invading alien for a second. It was just a shadow.
TRIP: Hmm.
B5!
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Old January 22 2010, 11:53 PM   #935
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

2.5 star average for the mirror universe episodes? I really do hate GodBen sometimes. That's almost as bad as your rating for "Remember".

Good review of TATV though.

Last edited by You_Guyz; January 23 2010 at 12:12 AM.
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Old January 23 2010, 12:19 AM   #936
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
BTW, does anyone remember who spoiled the plot for everyone?
quills
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Old January 23 2010, 12:44 AM   #937
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Dear lord, GodBen, that was the awesomest review of TATV ever.

Honestly, I wish that TPTB had been able to finagle a way to get Patrick Stewart back and do a story set on the 1701-E, since that's the last known (and non-alternate universe) Enterprise we know about. I liked the idea of the story, but instead of reliving something on the holodeck I think it would have been neat to do a Star Trek: Legacy sort of thing with a story spanning from the first Enterprise to the last (or, well, most recent).

That said, I'm not sure how they would have been able to get any of the TOS characters involved except through archive footage, and that just would have been cheesy.

Looking forward to your Babylon 5 reviews.
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Old January 23 2010, 03:52 AM   #938
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

I second the 'why Pegasus' question. If they wanted Riker and Troi, couldn't this have been a 'Riker's reflections before taking command of Titan' thing? It would have helped this feel like a separate episode, a coda to the series, and this era of Star Trek as a whole. That would have worked better for the idea of the whole 'Valentine to the fans' BS line.
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Old January 23 2010, 04:26 AM   #939
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

You_Guyz wrote: View Post
2.5 star average for the mirror universe episodes? I really do hate GodBen sometimes. That's almost as bad as your rating for "Remember".
Jaespol, is that you? I mean, I was always a bit suspicious of you You_Guyz because of your blunt manner, and it's a little odd that you always call me GodBen even though I had the The added 3 months before you joined the board, but hey, coincidences happen. But your repeated complaints about my review of Remember raised my interest, so I went back and read that review and lo and behold, Jaespol hounded me for my review of that episode too. And when I looked at Jaespol's account I saw that you were one of the last 10 visitors, which is odd considering he was banned almost six months before you joined the board on account of him having been previously banned under another account.

I kind of miss Jaespol and felt the Voyager thread went downhill after he left because it was lacking the stupid things he often said. I tried to compensate by being even dumber than normal, but it just wasn't the same.

Anyway, You_Guyz, what you should do is start a thread called "A Hater Revisits TheGodBen's Hater Reviews". You can give my reviews star ratings, and at the end of each season you can make graphs and explain how you would have reviewed the episodes differently. It would be awesome.
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Old January 23 2010, 04:27 AM   #940
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Issue number 4: Shran's plot

TNG finale: An epic investigation spanning three time-periods which has the possibility of changing history and erasing all life.
DS9 finale: The final battle of an epic war for the future of the galaxy combined with a struggle between two supernatural races.
Voyager finale: An epic showdown between Voyager and the Borg and the end of Voyager's long journey home.
Enterprise finale: They rescue Shran's daughter.

This isn't an epic event on which to end the show, this is the sort of boring fluff you'd expect to see in season 2. I can understand B&B's desire to bring Shran back for the finale, and the irony in the fact that Rigel X is the first and last planet Enterprise visits, but this is an incredibly lame way to end the series.
You could not have put this any better TheGodBen. As much as I obviously love the character of Shran, and usually leapt for joy whenever he appeared in an episode, his appearance here was just pathatic.

What really upsets me about is that TPTB intentionally kept him out of "Demons" and "Terra Prime" so they could use him for this God-awful thing. Personally, I think it would worked wonderfully to use him in those episodes instead, thereby having his final appearance being used to further develop the "founding of the Federation" storyline.

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
These Are The Voyages... It happened, it's canonical, get used to it.
It didn't happen as long as I continue to take my Repressitol pills. I think I'm gonna need a double dose tonight.

Kegg wrote: View Post
Can't be "All Good Things", that's Picard's story, and, uh, what else happened in the seventh season? That was good? Anyone?
I always liked "Masks." And yes, I'm being dead serious, as I've said numerous other places on this site. But, that wouldn't work either, so I guess that does leave "The Pegasus." Like you said, it makes sense on paper.
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Old January 23 2010, 04:51 AM   #941
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Anyway, You_Guyz, what you should do is start a thread called "A Hater Revisits TheGodBen's Hater Reviews". You can give my reviews star ratings, and at the end of each season you can make graphs and explain how you would have reviewed the episodes differently. It would be awesome.
ohmigod, ohmigod , ohmigod



Yes. It would be awesome. I can't actually breath anymore, because I'm laughing so much. Best post ever. No, seriously. It's so... my god... it's brilliant.
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Old January 23 2010, 10:38 AM   #942
Seven of Five
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

I love this thread so much.

I won't go into detail on TATV as I've done it before so many times. I'll just say I agree with your review and be done with it. I do feel that the episode could have been better by not being the series finale, by not linking up with The Pegasus poorly, and by not having Trip die in that stupid way.
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Old January 23 2010, 04:43 PM   #943
TheGodBen
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Jimmy Bob wrote: View Post
ohmigod, ohmigod , ohmigod



Yes. It would be awesome. I can't actually breath anymore, because I'm laughing so much. Best post ever. No, seriously. It's so... my god... it's brilliant.
Careful now, my ego is already inflated to breaking point.


DEAR INTERNET,

Season 4 Review

The final season of Enterprise, the year when the show finally found the direction it should have been pointing in from the beginning. So, it's my favourite season of the show, right? No.



Let's get the important bit out of the way first, the average score I gave to this season was 5.273, which is a bit more than season 1 but substantially lower than season 3. I felt there was two dry spells during the season; Awakening/Kir'Shara/Daedalus and Divergence/Bound/IAMD Part 1. Luckily both of these dry spells were short, but they were enough to hold the season back. The trend-line for this season does trend down slightly, but if you discount TATV it trends slightly up, so the real message of that line is that the season was fairly consistent. This is the third highest season of Trek I have reviewed so far coming just ahead of VOY season 4.



I don't like the look of this graph. Seriously, look at the top of those blue bars, they're covering the thin white line rather than stopping before them. It's because I'm using the beta of Office 2010, and if they don't fix this in the final release there's no way I'm paying money for it!

This graph seems fairly easy to understand, there's two bell curves, one is centred around 3 and the other somewhere around 7. Much like the better seasons of Voyager, this season doesn't have many middling episodes, just episodes I thought were bad or which I thought were good. Unfortunately there was no 10s this season and one 0, but the overall score was still positive due to all the 7s and 8s I awarded.

Nine episodes this season were below average, one was average and twelve were above average.
Best episode: Affliction
Worst episode: Bound


The Writers

Two new writers this season, Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, and they not only wrote all their episodes together, they also have an irritatingly long name which even when shortened still manages to stretch the left-hand margin of the graph.



The Reeves-Stevens won this season by writing five episodes and scoring an average of 6.6. My good pal Mike Sussman wrote the most episodes this season, a total of seven with an average score of 6.429. Coto is next, and somehow he recovered from Storm Front and Bound to score an average score of 5 from his six episodes. Next is Bormanis who was so distracted by the pleasing feminine form that his average score dipped down to 4.667 out of his three episodes. (I'm a bit upset that I've just started this recurring joke about André Bormanis being a ladies man at the point where I'm about to go review a different show. ) But the losers this season are Berman and Braga with only one episode to their name, and if the majority of people on this forum have any choice in the matter they'll be going to Hell for writing it.

I'm saving the overall average scores for the series review because it will fit in better there, so I'll leave you to guess how it will turn out. Will B&B have a positive score overall? Will our good friend Mike Sussman make his way to the top of the heap? Will Manny Coto suffer for making me live through Bound? All will be revealed...

(Spoiler: Yes, no, and not really.)


What Would TheGodBen Do?

The year is 2004. Berman and Braga fall back to lick their wounds and Manny Coto takes magic mushrooms and wakes up married to a Hungarian transvestite named Steve (because Steve is a popular Hungarian name). In this power-vacuum only one man is considered good enough to get this show back on track, but unfortunately he's very expensive so the studio hires me instead because I'm very cheap. What would I have done differently?

I'd kill off Trip and I'd centre the show on Riker's holodeck adventures. Duh!

I enjoyed the direction this season took but I found too many of the episodes underwhelming, so the general idea for most of the episodes would be the same I'd just try to do them better. Take the United trilogy as an example; it had two very good episodes and then a majorly disappointing ending with The Aenar. That was an episode which screamed out to have an epic confrontation involving the allied fleet, but instead we got a very standard battle that wouldn't have been out of place in season 2. That episode should have ended with a small fleet of alliance ships on one side with a small fleet of Romulan ships on the other side. It's a hugely tense moment, this could be the outbreak of the Romulan War, all it would take is one captain on either side to have an itchy trigger-finger. In the end the Romulans back down because it's not in their interests to go to war, but the humiliation they suffered that day strengthens their resolve to break this alliance and take revenge upon Earth.

There you have it, the set-up for the Earth-Romulan war. I think that would have been much better than Aenars talking telepathically and whatnot.

I'd have launched Columbia much sooner, probably directly after the Augment arc, because it's about time that Earth actually had a fleet out there if they're about to go tangling with the Romulans. I'd also announce that the next NX class ship, the NX-03 Benterprise, is only a year away due to the experience gained while building the first two. I'd even go so far as to say that the NX-04 DefiBent will be ready to launch 6 months after that due to the United Earth government's realisation that they needed to pump more resources into the fleet in the aftermath of the Xindi attack.

Bringing in Section 31 is fine by me, I love the concept of a covert ops group turning their backs on the principles they claim to be protecting, but I feel that Enterprise missed the opportunity to show the origins of this organisation. My idea is this: The colony in the Alpha Centuri system is humanity's largest outside the Sol system with a population of 50-100m people, and it is also vital to Earth and Starfleet because dilithium has been discovered there, which will be vital for the construction of the warp 7 ships currently on the drawing-board. For some reason the colony wishes to secede from Earth's control, but Earth, and Starfleet in particular, cannot allow this because they need the dilithium which does not naturally occur in the Sol system. Some Admirals in Starfleet meet in a dark office and hatch some sort of plan to prevent Centauran secession, and they bring it to the UE president in a secret meeting, pointing out that Article 14, Section 31 of the Starfleet charter allows such an action to take place. The President sanctions the action, which I feel is important because it gives Section 31 a certain legitimacy that they don't have if they're only a group of Starfleet Intelligence operatives gone rogue.

I'd even go further than all that and make sure that future story arcs show that this small but growing group in Starfleet (Reed gets recruited at some point in the show) is instrumental in the formation of the Federation. Without Section 31 there wouldn't even be a Federation (influencing regime change on Andoria, for example) and the galaxy would be in turmoil, which means that the Federation was founded on a lie. But is it better to live in a galaxy which is fractured or a galaxy which is united by such shady dealings? There's potential here for morality questions which go above and beyond what the Dominion War or Xindi arc was capable of because it is redefining our understanding of the entire Star Trek universe.


Statistics

Disappearing Aliens: 30 +1
Archer Abuse: 37 +10
Captain Redshirt: 39 +9
Transporter: 26 +14
Nipples Ahoy!: 21 +5

That alien one is interesting because it seems the only new aliens this season were the Na'Khul from Storm Front, an alien race introduced by B&B in season 3 but named in season 4. The only other new aliens I can think of are the unnamed ones from TATV, also a B&B creation. If Manny Coto has done one thing this season it is showing that Enterprise didn't need all these new aliens which showed up in the first three seasons, it was possible to tell good stories using elements and races which we already know about.


In Summation

The final season of Enterprise is bitter-sweet, not only because it was taking the show in the right direction and then cancelled, but also because it wasn't quite living up to its promise. The arc format was a good idea, especially since the show had just finished a season-long arc, but sometimes that led to padding of episodes because they didn't have enough material to fill three episodes, or the final part of an arc failed to live up the the promise shown in previous episodes. I don't feel that this season was as good as many here do, but overall I did enjoy it, and it is a great pity that the show didn't get a fifth season to work out these issues while continuing to move in the right direction.
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Old January 23 2010, 07:42 PM   #944
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

The final season of Enterprise is bitter-sweet, not only because it was taking the show in the right direction and then cancelled, but also because it wasn't quite living up to its promise. The arc format was a good idea, especially since the show had just finished a season-long arc, but sometimes that led to padding of episodes because they didn't have enough material to fill three episodes, or the final part of an arc failed to live up the the promise shown in previous episodes. I don't feel that this season was as good as many here do, but overall I did enjoy it, and it is a great pity that the show didn't get a fifth season to work out these issues while continuing to move in the right direction.
I think that this is what was most upsetting. This show had found it's footing in the last two seasons and I believe season 5-7 would have really showcased some great Star Trek stories and of course, the Romulan War. So, I think it was a big mistake to end the show. Also, with three more seasons that were more like 3&4, the franchise would have been much stronger (ENT) than it stands now. I really think people might have given ENT a second chance if it had continued on the course that seasons 3&4 had put it on. Oh, well. Just makes me enjoy the ENT relaunch books even more.
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Old January 23 2010, 07:52 PM   #945
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Jaespol, is that you?
Of course he is.

I especially loved this bit here ...

Great TATV review, by the way.
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