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Old January 5 2010, 10:01 PM   #826
apenpaap
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Who is V'Las and why have we never heard of him before?
We didn't see Earth's Prime Minister until "Demons", in 24th century Trek the President of the Federation and the Praetor of the Romulans only appeared twice, etc. Trek doesn't usually show heads of state.
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Old January 6 2010, 12:10 AM   #827
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

It's easy, V'Las doesn't exist in Vulcan history before or after The Forge. He's a plot device, brought in to handily make the Vulcans in Enterprise more like the ones we see in all the other series...
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Old January 6 2010, 12:31 AM   #828
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

4 perfect stars out of 4. A classic--one of Trek's very best and one of ENT's top two episodes. Just really wonderful.

One of the better ideas in fact that Manny Coto came up with this season was to examine in some detail each of the species that would one day form the Federation. Really the main characters of these stories are not so much our crew but the Vulcans themselves and I for one love it. I loved the political intrigue and ever-expanding conspiracies that are revealed as the crew delves further into the bombing of Earth’s embassy. We soon realize there is more going on here than meets the eye--that this is just the tip as we learn by the end of “Kir’Shara” of a vast intergalactic conspiracy.

The best material is the elements that come together for the well-rounded picture of the Vulcans covering every aspect from their homeworld to their culture to their mysticism to their philosophies.

They also did an equally good job in bringing planet Vulcan to life. I loved seeing the NX-01 in orbit of the orange globe and I loved how they showed us a world with its modern amenities as well as its historical landmarks. We saw the modern with the bristling cities with beautiful alien architecture but we saw the ancient Vulcan statues as well. They did a fabulous job bringing to life the Forge.

The filming of the scenes of Archer and T’Pol slogging across the Forge helped to sell the idea that this was an unforgiving blistering dry desolate environment with bizarre properties including the dampening field and deadly sandstorms. We see Vulcan animal life in the form of the seh’lat that comes after Archer and T’Pol before they encounter the mysterious Arev who appears in the desert night. Bakula and Jolene have great chemistry.

The mysticism adds another wonderfully alien dimension to the Vulcans with their katras and mind melds. A quite impressive moment that really stood out occurs when Archer, T’Pol and Arev stop for a moment to look out onto the vast Forge itself as Arev recounts how millennia ago the area was a horrific battlefield when Vulcan passions threatened to destroy the Vulcan civilization. It was a moment in which I was just as much in awe of what I was seeing and hearing as the characters. I began to appreciate even more the struggles the Vulcans have had to cope with. It shows where the Vulcans are coming from and ties in nicely with the Soval/Forest conversation earlier. Plus I liked how it had biblical overtones. The Reeves-Stevenses really ought to be commended for their ability to be so poetic in some of the dialog and this was one of those moments with the imagery of green Vulcan blood everywhere and logic cooling it. Another elegant bit of prose is the tale of the last days of Surak as his katra was spirited away to Mt Seleya and the battle with those who marched beneath the raptor’s wings. Not only was it well told but further shedded light on the Vulcans by providing more intriguing and unsettling insight into the violent dark turmoil of the their distant past.

Michael Nouri also must be praised for creating in my mind the quintessential Vulcan with all the mannerisms, speech patterns, delivery and emotional control I have always associated with them from my earliest remembrances of Vulcans from my exposure to them as a kid watching Trek reruns.

I also loved how Archer/T’Pol’s journey across the desert in search of answers was a quest of sorts and not just an adventure. Also reinforcing that feeling was the hidden map inside the pendant that T’Les hoped that T’Pol would follow to find her.

The episode’s effectiveness owes a great deal also to the fact that it manages to transport us back in time from the perspective of TOS as we see really for the first time important and pivotal historical events unfold right before our eyes. We are literally seeing the very foundations of the Federation’s inception forming. This truly felt like the 22nd century in a way that it hadn’t in a long time and that is a major appeal of the episode. This continues to show Archer that things won’t come easily and before it is all over to achieve the kind of lasting peace and to bring together countless worlds will require a lot of sacrifice not just Admiral Forest or the 30 human lives lost in the embassy explosion or with Earth’s innocence. The hardest days lie ahead with the Romulan War. The events in this episode portend tumultuous days ahead and that is exactly the way I wanted this particular period of time to be portrayed as.

To that end “The Forge” does a fabulous job in showing the differences in the last three years between “Broken Bow” and now. The fun of exploring and the moments from simpler times with Forest are over and the hard work of becoming part of the greater galactic community that drove Archer to press for the launch of NX in the first place is now at hand.

Unlike in the future where the founding worlds and the Federation they formed act as a beacon to other species to demonstrate how mutual cooperation and peace can enhance quality of life and bring stability to the Alpha Quadrant, here we are shown that it didn’t come together easily. It wasn’t just humanity that had to grow and evolve. We see a very dark Vulcan society. Just as Vulcans’ decency and compassion has limitless depths so does their capacity for violence and depravity.

We are witnessing a very troubled society on the verge of an abyss teetering towards self destruction. For the first time do outsiders start to see a world plagued by disturbing acts of civil unrest and violence. First with the embassy bombing to the crackdown on communications to a planetary database of genetic profiles to conspiracies involving the highest levels of the Vulcan government to the ominous fly-overs by Vulcan patrol crafts to people going underground into hiding. It definitely reminded me of the disturbing things that were occurring on Bajor and the unsettling times from the Circle trilogy.

But amidst all this darkness there is hope such as the fact that when Soval talks about the High Command being wary of what humanity might do in the next century we can take comfort because we know what happens, that Vulcans and humans will be close allies. But for now each of the founding worlds are going to have growing pains and internal obstacles to work through before they are able to pave the way to an interstellar alliance.

I also appreciated the scene in the temporary morgue. It was realistic and powerful as we see the actual loss of life by the number of flag draped caskets(not photon torpedo coffins as in later series. I also liked the Archer/Soval conversation which offered a brief sense of hope for the future amidst all this despair and death.

The episode captured a nice sense of solemnity with the Vulcan contingency that greets Archer at the airlock with “All of Vulcan grieves with you today” or the fact Archer is burdened with the responsibility of transporting home the bodies of its citizens.

I also liked the fact that we saw others like Forest, working their way in expanding relations with the Vulcans. The writers also managed to include numerous Trek references that felt natural instead of shoehorned in.

The intrigue was compelling as one revelation after another was discovered as the investigation unfolded-Vulcans might be responsible, T'Pau being a Syrannite, T’Les being a Syrannite to the planted DNA to Soval willing to perform a mind-meld. And despite the number of times we’ve seen a meld I have to say they did a surprisingly good job making it seem new and unique as though it is the first time and very alien. No doubt the music and lighting and the camera angles helped tremendously not to mention the awe displayed by Trip. Plus the tension waiting to see the mysterious hooded figure who entered the embassy. When the moment finally arrives and we see the face of Stel things take an intriguing turn. Great stuff.

I must commend the Reeves-Stevenses on knowing their Trek stuff backwards and forwards because even having seen TOS if I wasn’t careful I might have overlooked some of their subtlety.
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Old January 6 2010, 12:44 AM   #829
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Wow startrekwatcher, you quite eloquently nailed what makes this episode a classic Star Trek episode.
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Old January 6 2010, 04:24 AM   #830
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

What you guys said.
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Old January 6 2010, 05:27 PM   #831
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Awakening (*½)

If The Forge was the setup then Awakening was the episode where these pieces came into play, and it is only when they come into play that you realise this plot makes no sense. In some ways this story reminds me of Generations; a laundry list of plot elements were forced together and the writers had to mesh these things in any way possible. This is the story of how the Vulcan of the 22nd century reforms and becomes the Vulcan we know but it has to include an allegory to the Iraq war, a political movement on Vulcan, Sarek, T'Pol's mother has to die to free T'Pol from her marriage, and there's some sort of connection to the Romulans. I'll let Soval explain the plot.

TUCKER: What does the High Command have against the Syrrannites? They went to a lot of trouble to frame them for the embassy bombing.
SOVAL: The Syrrannites believe violence to be antithetical to Surak's teachings.
TUCKER: So they're pacifists.
SOVAL: V'Las considers that a dangerous mindset, particularly now.
TUCKER: What do you mean?
SOVAL: The High Command is planning to attack Andoria.
TUCKER: Wait, wait. Vulcan and Andoria signed a peace treaty two years ago. Captain Archer helped negotiate it.
SOVAL: Vulcan Intelligence claims the Andorians are developing a weapon, possibly based on Xindi technology.
TUCKER: You don't believe it.
SOVAL: I suspect V'Las is using the claim to advance an agenda. He's persuaded the High Command to launch a preemptive strike.
TUCKER: He's going to start an interstellar war.
SOVAL: One that could devastate Andoria and Vulcan and eventually involve other worlds, including Earth.
1) The Syrrannites are pacifists, so V'Las fears them why? V'Las fears a protest march? When I was 17 I went to Dublin with around 100,000 other people to protest against the impending invasion of Iraq, and over a million people did the same in London. It didn't change anything.
2) There's not going to be a protest march because there's only 200 or so Syrrannites and they're isolated out in the desert with no technology to even get word that Vulcan has gone to war. If one million people marching down the major streets of a capital city didn't prevent a war then 200 people stuck in a hole aren't going to do anything.
3) The Syrrannites are known to be pacifists, so V'Las frames them for a number of violent actions and Soval is the only guy to think "Hang on a second, the Syrrannites wouldn't do that, they're pacifists."
4) There's 200 of them out in the desert. I'm reiterating that.
5) V'Las plans the bombing of the Earth embassy why? If he wanted an excuse to blow up the Syrrannite base real good he could have bombed any old Vulcan building, but instead he gets a foreign power with a history of questioning Vulcans involved.
6) Why did V'Las need Enterprise out of orbit before bombing the Syrrannite base? He has framed them for a series of terrorist bombings and violent attacks, he has the authority to blow them up real good when their base is on Vulcan soil. Why should he give a damn what humans think?
7) V'Las opens fire on Enterprise?! Attacking an allied ship is considered preferable to allowing that ship to witness a (presumably) legal action taken by a government against a group implicated as terrorists?
8) SOVAL IS ONLY TELLING US THIS NOW?!!!

V'Las also has to be one of the worst interpretations of a Vulcan ever shown on screen. Vulcans don't have to constantly be cold and wooden, but displaying obvious signs of seething anger is going too far. Maybe he's secretly a Romulan, but I find it hard to imagine that nobody who worked with him realised that he's driven by emotion, and his plan certainly displays no sign of logic. Soval claims that Vulcan is a meritocracy and that V'Las was made leader of the High Command because he displayed an impressive ability for governance. In that case surely the Vulcans who placed him in power had to ability to remove him when they realised that he's batshit insane!

Other things not to like about this episode:
1) Archer and Surak. Yes, it's better than the time that Kirk met Surak and they teamed up with Lincoln to kick Genghis Khan's ass, but Archer having a conversation with Surak in his mind was both cheesy and easy. Archer doesn't solve the puzzle and realise that he has to find the Kir'Shara, he has a nice chat in his head with Surak and Surak tells him to go find it.
2) Archer finds the Kir'Shara within 5 minutes. It was hidden behind an impressive looking door that nobody in 1800 years thought to put a sledgehammer to.
3) T'Pol's mother dies in one of the most clichéd death sequences ever filmed.
T'PAU: Everyone's dead. Lets go.
ARCHER: Wait, I hear something.
T'POL: Mother, you're alive!
T'LES: I'm proud of you, crack-whore daughter of mine. Urgh! I'm dead now.
T'POL: Noooooooo!!!!!
ARCHER: Ironic and convenient that she survived just to die in your arms.
T'POL: Quiet you, can't you see that I'm struggling to repress my emotions? I've got this solitary-tear-running-down-check thing going on.
T'PAU: Stop wasting time crack-whore, we've got to get the magical pyramid thing to the government.
ARCHER: It's actually closer to a tetrahedron.
T'PAU: Well aren't you anal. Come on, let's go.
ARCHER: Shouldn't we look around for more survivors first? If T'Les survived then we have a chance to save some others.
T'PAU: I enjoy letting people die. It is my ambition one day to rule over a ceremony where two combatants fight to the death for no reason. *winks at camera*
GENERAL: No, no this is silly. The whole premise is silly and it's very badly written.
ARCHER: Hey, you're not from this franchise. Ben has only brought you into this scene because he couldn't think of a punchline.
GENERAL: Not true, not true. Right, let's move onto the next numerical point, and this time it had better not be silly.
4) Soval has no friends, so he hangs around on a ship with a bunch of people who have hated his guts for three years.

Things to like about this episode:
1) It's attempting to be a proper prequel to TOS, that's good.
2) It has politics.
3) It hints at major developments next week.

*Braces self for backlash*
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Old January 6 2010, 05:41 PM   #832
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
GENERAL: No, no this is silly. The whole premise is silly and it's very badly written.
He got promoted? Last time I checked, he was a Colonel.
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Old January 6 2010, 06:33 PM   #833
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Awakening (*½)

If The Forge was the setup then Awakening was the episode where these pieces came into play, and it is only when they come into play that you realise this plot makes no sense.
I think that is because Awakening is really the setup for Kir'Shara. Maybe The Forge was just the prolog. Things make more sense once you watch Kir'Shara.

Of course, Kir'Shara is really a setup for season 5. Too bad that never happened.
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Old January 6 2010, 06:46 PM   #834
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
1) The Syrrannites are pacifists, so V'Las fears them why? V'Las fears a protest march? When I was 17 I went to Dublin with around 100,000 other people to protest against the impending invasion of Iraq, and over a million people did the same in London. It didn't change anything.
2) There's not going to be a protest march because there's only 200 or so Syrrannites and they're isolated out in the desert with no technology to even get word that Vulcan has gone to war. If one million people marching down the major streets of a capital city didn't prevent a war then 200 people stuck in a hole aren't going to do anything.
3) The Syrrannites are known to be pacifists, so V'Las frames them for a number of violent actions and Soval is the only guy to think "Hang on a second, the Syrrannites wouldn't do that, they're pacifists."
4) There's 200 of them out in the desert. I'm reiterating that.
5) V'Las plans the bombing of the Earth embassy why? If he wanted an excuse to blow up the Syrrannite base real good he could have bombed any old Vulcan building, but instead he gets a foreign power with a history of questioning Vulcans involved.
6) Why did V'Las need Enterprise out of orbit before bombing the Syrrannite base? He has framed them for a series of terrorist bombings and violent attacks, he has the authority to blow them up real good when their base is on Vulcan soil. Why should he give a damn what humans think?
7) V'Las opens fire on Enterprise?! Attacking an allied ship is considered preferable to allowing that ship to witness a (presumably) legal action taken by a government against a group implicated as terrorists?
8) SOVAL IS ONLY TELLING US THIS NOW?!!!
Don't forget this one...

9) The Syrannites are all wanted, so 200 of them turning up for a protest march would make their arrest or collective murder very easy.

I was also disappointed by T'Pau in this episode. She looked very scruffy, and living in a desert is no excuse - after all a fairly mediochre pop band from Telford, England named themselves after her - she should respect herself a little more. Carol Decker would be ashamed.
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Old January 6 2010, 07:52 PM   #835
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Awakening--3 stars out of 4.

Not as bad as I had feared but not nearly as good as I had hoped but I did enjoy it. A lot of the concern over the quality of the episode not only had to do with the fact that "The Forge" was so good it'd be hard to top but because Andre Bormanis wrote it. He has a pretty poor track record as a writer in my opinion but surprisingly it was rather solid.

Bruce Gray was well cast as Surak definitely coming across as a wise influential figure with a gentle spirit. I could definitely see him being the Father of Vulcan Logic. One thing ENT did well is provide several evocative images--most recently in the Xindi arc with the chilling sight of the weapon underwater nearing completion and now here with the hauntingly beautiful shot of the nuclear bomb going off in the distance. Also I really liked the way the Archer/Surak scenes were conceived with its nicely ethereal qualities. The jarring image of future allies Earth and Vulcan firing on each other was striking.

T’Pau’s characterization as an young rebel leader determined to save her people at all costs was interesting from the standpoint of where she ends up within Vulcan society and the Federation in her later years. T’Les shined in her scenes including her death which was a moving moment as she shares in a very emotional way why she was doing all of this for T’Pol. I loved the shot of the trio looking out over the sanctuary as it was being bombarded--a nice parallel to the image in “The Forge” where Arev told Archer/T'Pol about the blood that was shed and yet here we are with violence erupting again centuries later--full circle indeed.

The show also did a really good job in making it clear that whatever is about to happen Vulcan would never be the same. This whole arc does an exceptional job of making this historical period so vibrant and alive. Seeing these various characters from Archer, T’Pol to Soval, T’Pau and the Syrannites being cast as those historic figures you read about who at the time didn’t really appreciate what they were bringing about but which history acknowledges is just marvelous stuff.

As for V’Las I know some don't care for his emotional outbursts but for some reason it didn’t bother me. I think I’ve seen so many emotional Vulcans in ENT coupled with what we learn of V’Las as being a Vulcan that subscribes to the militant philosophies of the ancient Vulcans and rejects Surak I would expect him to behave so.

I did think it a tad convenient that Surak chose to reveal the location of the Kir'Shara when its discovery sooner would have prevented things to not have gotten this far.
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Old January 6 2010, 08:01 PM   #836
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
1) The Syrrannites are pacifists, so V'Las fears them why?
Because he is a militant wanting to expand Vulcan's influence and reunite with the Romulans so a group advocating peace threatens those goals especially one as influential as the Syrannites who have managed to recruit not just young idealists but individuals like T'Les and Soval. Clearly they can sense the tide may be turning. I don't see this as a valid criticism.
4) There's 200 of them out in the desert. I'm reiterating that.
But that doesn't include all the others who aren't in hiding and are in every strata of Vulcan society
Maybe he's secretly a Romulan, but I find it hard to imagine that nobody who worked with him realised that he's driven by emotion, and his plan certainly displays no sign of logic.
If one thing ENT has taught us is that Vulcans in this time period aren't as emotionally restrained as they would be in later centuries. So V'Las' emotional outbursts probably wouldn't raise eyebrows.
Soval claims that Vulcan is a meritocracy and that V'Las was made leader of the High Command because he displayed an impressive ability for governance. In that case surely the Vulcans who placed him in power had to ability to remove him when they realised that he's batshit insane!
Unless they are Romulan sympathizers--which in that case would mean they'd leave him exactly where he was.
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Old January 6 2010, 08:03 PM   #837
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

SFRabid wrote: View Post
Of course, Kir'Shara is really a setup for season 5. Too bad that never happened.
Quite true.

While DS9 isn’t my favorite Trek show(TNG is), I certainly liked a lot of what it did especially in dealing with large scale stuff like political intrigue, war etc things that involve many different groups and works to flesh out the universe we are watching. And there is a lot of those elements here and like DS9, the writers are able to work in many different groups into the show in very believable ways that also manages to not only shed light on the players and their motivations but looks at the dynamics that are at play in the 22nd century as well.

They juggle so many threads in this arc in such an impressive fashion. Not only do they do an amazingly good job in looking at the Vulcans and telling a story about their societal upheaval which allows the Vulcans to be put back on a track as a culture but they also saw this as a wonderful opportunity to deepen the already rich material of the Vulcan saga by tying in as many prequel elements & players as possible not just to shoehorn them in but to work them in through very logical and effective ways without ever feeling excessive.

This was very clever and prudent because it helped establish important groundwork that the series could have potentially built on in future seasons much like DS9 with the Dominion, the Maquis, the Klingons, Gowron, the Romulans, Section 31, Bajor etc. but it provided some interesting context to vague events in Trek history surrounding familiar faces and races and showed how various complicated relationships began(many of which developed in very intriguing ways) thereby furthering Coto’s prequel agenda.

You could have still just had the Vulcan story on its own without bringing in all the other stuff but it would not have been nearly as interesting or ambitious.

A prequel smorgasbord: From the Vulcan crisis the writers were able to address-Vulcan cultural/moral decay, it allowed for plausible Vulcan/Andorian tensions which were ongoing and building since the first season which finally come to a head with a brief firefight between small fleets of vessels, the relationships among those who’ll be influential within their respective governments for peaceful co-existence are focused on whether Soval/Shran, T’Pau/Archer, T’Pol/T’Pau, Soval/Archer, Soval/Trip.(that is all part of satisfying the Birth of the Federation storyline while not being strictly about that). And all of this is being triggered by the Romulans whose history with Vulcan is also played up nicely giving the events a lot of depth and insight. Plus we see how humanity-a seemingly insignificant race and one the Romulans really hadn’t considered as an obstacle to their goals at least not in the way the Andorians, Vulcans, Tellarites or Klingons were—gains the attention of the Star Empire. That isn’t too shabby in how it furthers things along many different fronts and I love how it all dovetails together.

The Andorians: Shran gets caught up in the heat of things. He kidnaps Soval and tortures him. While it was fine it went on a bit too long for my liking getting a tad repetitive and it was more cartoon-like as opposed to intense scenes.

The Vulcans: I also really warmed up to T'Pau and she came into her own here helping out T'Pol and revealing Pa'Nar isn't a terminal illness but a disorder caused by an inexperienced melder. T'Pau still didn't lose sight of the "needs of the many" as she put the Kir'Shara above the safety of T'Pol.

The Romulans: The fade in leads to intriguingly brief scene with V'Las meeting someone secretly discussing how their plans have failed. Granted we can tell pretty quickly who he is consorting with but I really can't tell you how much I enjoyed the thrill of seeing our first Romulan step out from the shadows making them the main antagonist for the 22nd century. This is the first time in a long time the Romulans felt like a real threat. They are presented as secretive, working in the shadows undermining Vulcan society and Vulcan/Andorian relationships. They have built an impressive empire and haven’t yet been tamed by a war or the Federation. Right now they are an unchecked power with their sights set on conquest of the Alpha Quadrant and the reclamation of their ancestral homeworld. It makes wonderful sense that the Romulans would hold a grudge against their cousins who drove them off what they feel is their world but always planning one day when they had built an empire to return to reclaim it one way or another. That’s a very interesting contrast between the Romulans now and then in the 24th century before the Federation contains them and keeps them in check. This gives them a nice menacing stature.

I also liked the idea that it wasn’t solely Romulan interference eroding Vulcan. Here we see that V’Las was a Vulcan who along with others adhered to the more militant ideals of those opposed to Surak. That makes a lot of sense. Of course there would be Vulcans who even if weren’t Romulans would have still held on to their more violent tendencies and rejected Surak. So it makes for a perfect partnership that Romulans would reveal themselves to a select few and let them know that they have their support while staying in the shadows.

The ending provides an ominous hint of things to come. I was hoping much like with the Vulcans the Romulans would become the focus of a storyline where we might learn more about them through flashbacks explaining more about how they survived, first found Romulus, explore who the Remans were etc. I really thought that would be fascinating.
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Old January 7 2010, 02:28 AM   #838
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

apenpaap wrote: View Post
He got promoted? Last time I checked, he was a Colonel.
Well it has been 40 years, he has been due that promotion for a long time.

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
TheGodBen wrote: View Post
1) The Syrrannites are pacifists, so V'Las fears them why?
Because he is a militant wanting to expand Vulcan's influence and reunite with the Romulans so a group advocating peace threatens those goals especially one as influential as the Syrannites who have managed to recruit not just young idealists but individuals like T'Les and Soval. Clearly they can sense the tide may be turning. I don't see this as a valid criticism.
4) There's 200 of them out in the desert. I'm reiterating that.
But that doesn't include all the others who aren't in hiding and are in every strata of Vulcan society
This is the big problem with the logic of his plan. If the Syrrannites are just a small group then it doesn't matter if they oppose his plans because they're an extreme minority, but if they're a large group that has spread through Vulcan society then going to the trouble of bombing the embassy of an allied power just to take out a small camp of them doesn't make sense.

If one thing ENT has taught us is that Vulcans in this time period aren't as emotionally restrained as they would be in later centuries. So V'Las' emotional outbursts probably wouldn't raise eyebrows.
T'Pol isn't as emotionally restrained, the rest of Vulcan society has been. The group in Fusion even left Vulcan because they didn't fit in, and the High Command was willing to let such people die because their acceptance of emotion made them undesirable. V'Las's behaviour is beyond the pale for a human, for a Vulcan he is certifiable.
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Old January 7 2010, 05:32 AM   #839
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post

3) T'Pol's mother dies in one of the most clichéd death sequences ever filmed.
T'PAU: Everyone's dead. Lets go.
ARCHER: Wait, I hear something.
T'POL: Mother, you're alive!
T'LES: I'm proud of you, crack-whore daughter of mine. Urgh! I'm dead now.
T'POL: Noooooooo!!!!!
ARCHER: Ironic and convenient that she survived just to die in your arms.
T'POL: Quiet you, can't you see that I'm struggling to repress my emotions? I've got this solitary-tear-running-down-check thing going on.
T'PAU: Stop wasting time crack-whore, we've got to get the magical pyramid thing to the government.
ARCHER: It's actually closer to a tetrahedron.
T'PAU: Well aren't you anal. Come on, let's go.
ARCHER: Shouldn't we look around for more survivors first? If T'Les survived then we have a chance to save some others.
T'PAU: I enjoy letting people die. It is my ambition one day to rule over a ceremony where two combatants fight to the death for no reason. *winks at camera*
GENERAL: No, no this is silly. The whole premise is silly and it's very badly written.
ARCHER: Hey, you're not from this franchise. Ben has only brought you into this scene because he couldn't think of a punchline.
GENERAL: Not true, not true. Right, let's move onto the next numerical point, and this time it had better not be silly.
I have to admit, I chuckled at this.
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Old January 7 2010, 07:11 AM   #840
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Couldn't disagree more on this one. The Forge/Awakening/Kirshara trilogy is the best story told in Enterprise and one of the best in all of Star Trek.

It's finally doing what this show was supposed to be doing all along - and well.

Complaining about cliches? It's Star Trek for crying out loud!

Hell, they had the balls to kill Admiral Forrest - a named character who appeared in the series regularly. It's a lot more than can be said than the rest of Star Trek.
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