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Old August 18 2009, 03:02 AM   #1
RobertScorpio
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The Definitive Ones

There have been several races in STAR TREK(s). Which one character from each race you want to name was the DEFINATIVE character of that race...

For example..

McCoy..although Kirk is human too, for me, McCoy was the definitive human on that show

Spock..he is the definative Vulcan (IMO)

Martok, for me, is the definative Klingon..

What are some of yours???

Rob
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Old August 18 2009, 03:10 AM   #2
xortex
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Re: The Definitive Ones

Kor was the definitive klingon. Loskene - the Tholians. Henglar - the Tellerites.
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Old August 18 2009, 03:16 AM   #3
RobertScorpio
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Re: The Definitive Ones

xortex wrote: View Post
Kor was the definitive klingon. Loskene - the Tholians. Henglar - the Tellerites.
I like Kor as the the definitive Klingon, but I also like Martok. I'll concede and make Kor the definitive TOS/TOS MOVIE era klingon and make Martok (meaning NOT WORF) the TNG and onward definitive Klingon.

Rob
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Old August 18 2009, 03:20 AM   #4
Elias Vaughn
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Re: The Definitive Ones

Q was the definitive Q.
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Old August 18 2009, 03:41 AM   #5
xortex
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Re: The Definitive Ones

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
xortex wrote: View Post
Kor was the definitive klingon. Loskene - the Tholians. Henglar - the Tellerites.
I like Kor as the the definitive Klingon, but I also like Martok. I'll concede and make Kor the definitive TOS/TOS MOVIE era klingon and make Martok (meaning NOT WORF) the TNG and onward definitive Klingon.

Rob
Well, the most definitive klingon who set the pattern for his planet's evil ways was Kahless. Something TNG didn't grasp onto. Just as Surak was the definitive Vulcan.
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Old August 18 2009, 04:49 AM   #6
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Re: The Definitive Ones

I'll go with Sarek for the definitive Vulcan, although I'm not sure how he beat out Spock.

Klingon would be Martok.

Romulan would be Mark Lenard's Romulan Comander. They've never come close to the three dimensions and complexivity of his portrayal.

Shrann was a perfect Andorian.

Brundt was the definitive Ferengi.

And I think I have to go with Bones for Human - at least by Star Trek standards. For most realistic Human, I'll go with the terrorist in DS9's Past Tense.
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Old August 18 2009, 05:19 AM   #7
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Re: The Definitive Ones

This is a bit of a reverse of what the post is asking, but I think it's germane to the conversation. I can't pick a definitive Cardassian even after giving it a great deal of thought. They were all so different in so many ways and had such complex motivations, that not a single one of them stands out as THE Cardassian. I give tremendous credit to the writers for doing such a good job of going beyond creating a stereotypical anything with that race.

I'll agree that Bones for TOS stands in well for humanity as a whole, and I believe it was deliberate.

I'd say Sarek for Vulcans over Spock simply because Spock was half human, and over time he embraced his dual heritage more.

For the Romulans, Tomolok comes to mind, maybe because Andreas Katsulas has such an immense presence in anything he did. I'm still bummed he died.

Martok was my favorite Klingon. Not sure I can say he is the definitive Klingon, but that's only because my memory for some of the Klingon-centric episodes of Trek is a bit weak. It has been a very long time since I've seen most of the series.

I think Quark was the definitive Ferengi for me, especially when they decided to try to be kinder, gentler Ferengi, and he held to the old ways and standards.
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Old August 18 2009, 09:58 AM   #8
Pemmer Harge
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Re: The Definitive Ones

Romulan: Tomalak
Vulcan: Spock
Klingon: Chang
Cardassian: Dukat
Ferengi: Zek
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Old August 18 2009, 12:02 PM   #9
Anika Hanson
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Re: The Definitive Ones

Vulcan-Spock
Klingon- my favourite was Worf but he was not typical Klingon so I'd go for Martok
Cardassian-Dukat
Ferengi-Quark
Bajoran-Kira
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Old August 18 2009, 01:56 PM   #10
RobertScorpio
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Re: The Definitive Ones

Anika Hanson wrote: View Post
Vulcan-Spock
Klingon- my favourite was Worf but he was not typical Klingon so I'd go for Martok
Cardassian-Dukat
Ferengi-Quark
Bajoran-Kira
lovin' the list. I think who nailed all of them!

Human...Harry Mudd?
God Like Being...Charlie (cause all Gods are supressed horny teenagers)
Hologram Character...Moriarty (sorry Voyager Doc)
Android...Data (though Kirk's andrea is hottest android ever)
Vulcan...I am going with Sarek on this one too


Rob
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Old August 18 2009, 04:52 PM   #11
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: The Definitive Ones

PSGarak wrote: View Post
This is a bit of a reverse of what the post is asking, but I think it's germane to the conversation. I can't pick a definitive Cardassian even after giving it a great deal of thought. They were all so different in so many ways and had such complex motivations, that not a single one of them stands out as THE Cardassian. I give tremendous credit to the writers for doing such a good job of going beyond creating a stereotypical anything with that race.
I definitely ran into the same problem, and for the same reason. There's also the question of who represents the sickness in their society (especially in the military/intelligence apparatus), and who represents what Cardassians REALLY are.

I'd say Sarek for Vulcans over Spock simply because Spock was half human, and over time he embraced his dual heritage more.
Indeed...that was the thing I really liked about Nimoy's acting in the movies: you started to see more of the charm and humor in Spock, even though he still kept his logic. That was something I really thought went right in Trek XI, as far as his demeanor went.
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Old August 18 2009, 05:36 PM   #12
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Re: The Definitive Ones

What does that mean, "definitive"? Typical? The best? Representing the majority?

Anika Hanson wrote: View Post
Vulcan-Spock
Klingon- my favourite was Worf but he was not typical Klingon so I'd go for Martok
Cardassian-Dukat
Ferengi-Quark
Bajoran-Kira
And do you really think that Dukat was a typical Cardassian? Or that Kira was a typical Bajoran?

For starters, if typical is something like, an average member of a race, I'm pretty sure that disqualifies every person in a high ranking military or political position. And even the guls and legates we saw in DS9 and TNG were all different, and none of them was like Dukat.

I am also quite sure that the average Bajoran was not a member of the Resistance, so that disqualifies Kira from being typical, too.

What does that even mean, typical? There are no typical examples of one race or the other. Although Star Trek has occasionally had the unfortunate tendency to make entire races into "A Planet of Hats" with a uniform culture, we've, fortunately, also seen a decent variery in characterization, particularly with Cardassians and Bajorans, who escaped the danger of being stereotypesI don't see how you could pick one person and call them "typical".


Also, shouldn't your point about Worf also apply to Spock? Worf has been brought up by humans, so he idealizes Klingon culture and tries to act like it. Spock was half-human and felt the need to compensate for it by trying too hard to be what he sees as a 'true Vulcan', i.e. 'he doth protest too much'. If Worf is not a typical Klingon, Spock is not a typical Vulcan, either.
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Old August 18 2009, 05:50 PM   #13
RobertScorpio
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Re: The Definitive Ones

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
What does that mean, "definitive"? Typical? The best? Representing the majority?

Anika Hanson wrote: View Post
Vulcan-Spock
Klingon- my favourite was Worf but he was not typical Klingon so I'd go for Martok
Cardassian-Dukat
Ferengi-Quark
Bajoran-Kira
And do you really think that Dukat was a typical Cardassian? Or that Kira was a typical Bajoran?

For starters, if typical is something like, an average member of a race, I'm pretty sure that disqualifies every person in a high ranking military or political position. And even the guls and legates we saw in DS9 and TNG were all different, and none of them was like Dukat.

I am also quite sure that the average Bajoran was not a member of the Resistance, so that disqualifies Kira from being typical, too.

What does that even mean, typical? There are no typical examples of one race or the other. Although Star Trek has occasionally had the unfortunate tendency to make entire races into "A Planet of Hats" with a uniform culture, we've, fortunately, also seen a decent variery in characterization, particularly with Cardassians and Bajorans, who escaped the danger of being stereotypesI don't see how you could pick one person and call them "typical".


Also, shouldn't your point about Worf also apply to Spock? Worf has been brought up by humans, so he idealizes Klingon culture and tries to act like it. Spock was half-human and felt the need to compensate for it by trying too hard to be what he sees as a 'true Vulcan', i.e. 'he doth protest too much'. If Worf is not a typical Klingon, Spock is not a typical Vulcan, either.
This thread is only based on people's own opinions. I mean, I named HARRY MUDD as the best example of humanity? Someone might name McCoy or Kirk or Chakotay...its just plain and simple fun...


CARDASSIAN...Dukat
Bajoran..KIRA
Horta...SMdfkkdfhki (the name of the horta in Devil in the Dark)

Hmmmm..I wonder what you would get if you crossed a VORTA with a HORTA?

Rob
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Old August 18 2009, 05:54 PM   #14
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Re: The Definitive Ones

I'm just asking what you mean by "definitive". How can I give my opinion on who is definitive this or that, when I don't even know what you mean by it?
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Old August 18 2009, 07:18 PM   #15
RobertScorpio
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Re: The Definitive Ones

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
I'm just asking what you mean by "definitive". How can I give my opinion on who is definitive this or that, when I don't even know what you mean by it?
well, for example, Sarek. To me Sarek is the best Vulcan character, ever. Even more so than Spock, who was really human/Vulan hybrid. So when I think of what character, in my opinion, was the character that stood out to be as being the most Vulcan, and represented the culture and customs? Sarek does...where as Sybok (a character I really do like) would not be the best representative of that world...

Rob
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