RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,564
Posts: 5,514,191
Members: 25,147
Currently online: 371
Newest member: Wolfspaw

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 2 2009, 03:02 PM   #31
JB2005
Commodore
 
JB2005's Avatar
 
Location: England, UK
Re: Borg Origin

^ Bear in mind that this was an experience within Unimatrix Zero...so she could have regained memories of her assimilation, but her borg programming crushed/reformed them...
__________________
Click here to see my failed attempt to write a children's story!
JB2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2009, 09:31 PM   #32
Agent Richard07
Retired
 
Re: Borg Origin

A few years ago, I found a script that details the origin of the Borg. My understanding is that it's an actual script that was never shot. It starts off with the Voyager encountering a space capsule with an astronaut inside in suspended animation. When he's brought to sickbay, Seven of Nine recognizes him as a member of Species 001. Here it is...

"Origin of the Species"
Agent Richard07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2009, 11:17 PM   #33
Bluesteel
Commander
 
Location: London,UK
Re: Borg Origin

I like to think that the Borg started out has cybernetic implants. People were given in it and one of them was a cute and innocent little girl who lost half of her body due to a tragic accident. She's given implants. How ever the nanoprobes from the implants malfunction Leukimia style and keep on multiplying. Eventually she turns into a Borg Drone. Assimilates the doctor and the other patients.


Then those guys go berserk and assimilate the entire society.
Bluesteel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2009, 11:32 PM   #34
Brit
Captain
 
Brit's Avatar
 
Location: Texas
Re: Borg Origin

exodus wrote: View Post
So she isn't an individual just like a Bee Queen can't survive without the hive. They all work together as one.
I hate to tell you this but a Queen Bee may not be able to survive without the Hive, but she is still an individual. Do you not believe people in wheelchairs are individuals?

It has to do with her physiology, the Borg Queen had almost no part of her body left, the Queen Bee is dependent on the hive to feed and shelter her that has nothing to do with individuality.

Again, take your theory and then fit it up against, "First Contact", "Dark Frontier," "Unimatrix Zero," and "Endgame" it won't take you very long to see what works and what doesn't. I did it.

Brit
__________________
"My name is Matai Shang and I do not exist, indeed I work very hard at it."

Avatar by Me
Brit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2009, 01:55 AM   #35
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Borg Origin

Brit wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
So she isn't an individual just like a Bee Queen can't survive without the hive. They all work together as one.
I hate to tell you this but a Queen Bee may not be able to survive without the Hive, but she is still an individual. Do you not believe people in wheelchairs are individuals?

It has to do with her physiology, the Borg Queen had almost no part of her body left, the Queen Bee is dependent on the hive to feed and shelter her that has nothing to do with individuality.

Again, take your theory and then fit it up against, "First Contact", "Dark Frontier," "Unimatrix Zero," and "Endgame" it won't take you very long to see what works and what doesn't. I did it.

Brit
First off, I was hoping this could remain pleasant........unfortunately.

"Do you not believe people in wheelchairs are individuals?"

What kinda condescending stupidity is that, seriously?
The Borg couldn't be all one if she were any individual, that would be a contradiction. As someone else pointed out, she just another component in a computer working with it but not separate from it.

How would I have come up with the idea that the Queen works like a brain, dependent yet independent in the Collective if I hadn't thought about the same things you did?

However theories are just unproven ideas, nobody here is more right or more wrong than anyone else. I hate to tell you that.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Last edited by exodus; September 3 2009 at 02:14 AM.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2009, 04:05 PM   #36
Tallis Rhul
Commander
 
Tallis Rhul's Avatar
 
Location: Rakantha Province
Re: Borg Origin

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
A few years ago, I found a script that details the origin of the Borg. My understanding is that it's an actual script that was never shot. It starts off with the Voyager encountering a space capsule with an astronaut inside in suspended animation. When he's brought to sickbay, Seven of Nine recognizes him as a member of Species 001. Here it is...

"Origin of the Species"

That script is kinda cool to be honest, and had they chosen to air it as the origin I wouldn't have objected.

I just wish they'd actually clear this one up... being mysterious is great, but there are so many half-official theories out there it's driving me crazy!
__________________
"If you're not fighting them, you're helping them."

Ever wanted to serve aboard your own ship? Visit Tallis's favourite website here: http://www.starbase118.net - the best Star Trek play by email roleplaying community going!
Tallis Rhul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2009, 05:54 PM   #37
kes7
Fleet Captain
 
kes7's Avatar
 
Location: Sector 001
Re: Borg Origin

I like the multiple theories floating around! It makes them more mysterious. Doesn't anybody just like a good mystery anymore? I still feel like knowing the origin of the Borg with canon-approved certainty would spoil the Borg fun. Am I alone in this?

kes7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2009, 06:07 PM   #38
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Borg Origin

kes7 wrote: View Post
I like the multiple theories floating around! It makes them more mysterious. Doesn't anybody just like a good mystery anymore? I still feel like knowing the origin of the Borg with canon-approved certainty would spoil the Borg fun. Am I alone in this?

No, not at all.
I think some characters, especially villains work better when there is some mystery left to them. I don't really need an explaination on why they're evil, I just accept they are.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2009, 09:22 PM   #39
Frazzled
Commander
 
Frazzled's Avatar
 
Location: The mess hall
Re: Borg Origin

exodus wrote: View Post
kes7 wrote: View Post
I like the multiple theories floating around! It makes them more mysterious. Doesn't anybody just like a good mystery anymore? I still feel like knowing the origin of the Borg with canon-approved certainty would spoil the Borg fun. Am I alone in this?

No, not at all.
I think some characters, especially villains work better when there is some mystery left to them. I don't really need an explaination on why they're evil, I just accept they are.
I think maybe this is the reason, other than the Janeway thing, that I don't like the direction trek lit has taken. I wanted Seven to stay part Borg, I wanted the Borg to remain mysterious bad guys, not to wipe out half the federation then disappear altogether and be explained in the process
__________________
Av by the fabulous E.S.
Frazzled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2009, 09:27 PM   #40
Frazzled
Commander
 
Frazzled's Avatar
 
Location: The mess hall
Re: Borg Origin

Brit wrote: View Post
She is an individual, she uses words like I and mine.

"I myself came from species 125" or "I was just about your age when I was assimilated." Sounds pretty individual to me.


Brit

Hmmmm - yeah, I guess she has to be able to uniquely-for-a-Borg remember and rationalise where she came from, whilst remaining connected to the hive mind and still 'I am the Borg..the one who is many'.

A fabulous paradox, that I feel doesn't need explaining, it just 'is', and IMHO works very well in First Contact. I always rejected BD anyway
__________________
Av by the fabulous E.S.
Frazzled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2009, 01:17 AM   #41
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Borg Origin

Frazzled wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
kes7 wrote: View Post
I like the multiple theories floating around! It makes them more mysterious. Doesn't anybody just like a good mystery anymore? I still feel like knowing the origin of the Borg with canon-approved certainty would spoil the Borg fun. Am I alone in this?

No, not at all.
I think some characters, especially villains work better when there is some mystery left to them. I don't really need an explaination on why they're evil, I just accept they are.
I think maybe this is the reason, other than the Janeway thing, that I don't like the direction trek lit has taken. I wanted Seven to stay part Borg, I wanted the Borg to remain mysterious bad guys, not to wipe out half the federation then disappear altogether and be explained in the process
I like a little bit of both, actually.

I like that they told us just enough to give us a fundamental idea of how the Borg function, while retaining the mystery by not giving us a clue about they're origin.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2009, 01:36 AM   #42
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Borg Origin

Frazzled wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
kes7 wrote: View Post
I like the multiple theories floating around! It makes them more mysterious. Doesn't anybody just like a good mystery anymore? I still feel like knowing the origin of the Borg with canon-approved certainty would spoil the Borg fun. Am I alone in this?

No, not at all.
I think some characters, especially villains work better when there is some mystery left to them. I don't really need an explaination on why they're evil, I just accept they are.
I think maybe this is the reason, other than the Janeway thing, that I don't like the direction trek lit has taken. I wanted Seven to stay part Borg, I wanted the Borg to remain mysterious bad guys, not to wipe out half the federation then disappear altogether and be explained in the process
I can understand this, and wanting to retain a mysterious villain - that's part of why I love 8472, after all - but IMO TrekLit did such a good job with Destiny that it makes up for the loss of mystery and lack of hiddenness. Brings the Borg to a satisfying conclusion for me.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2009, 11:40 AM   #43
Brit
Captain
 
Brit's Avatar
 
Location: Texas
Re: Borg Origin

It's ok as a reader to not want to know the beginning of the Borg, but the "writer" has to know. In some form or another in order to give some kind of truth to what he or she writes and I cannot say this strongly enough "The Writer Has To Know."

And this is the difference, it's why I told Exodus to take his theory and write something within the time frame of what we do know about the Borg.

The beginning is a part of the "world building" that every writer goes through and I stopped being just a Trek reader a very long time ago. I write it and I've been told that I'm pretty good at writing it too.

There are a lot of "rules" to writing that are more or less followed so long as you don't follow them off a cliff (thank you C.J. Cherryth). There is however one true axiom, "the reader doesn't get to know everything the writer knows."

This is the difference. I have to know how the Borg began, and I'll pretty much guarantee that in his own mind, David Mack had to know too. Do I agree with his beginning, No! I've been there and I don't think his version fits with canon but what I'm saying is that he had to work all that out to his own satisfaction to write what he did.

It's fine to be a reader that wants the mysterious villain, but you should know that there are readers coming from other directions that do want to know the beginning and when the little that they are given is unsatisfactory, they write it themselves.

No one has to agree with my beginning, but they need to respect my version because it's just as right as anyone else’s.

Brit
__________________
"My name is Matai Shang and I do not exist, indeed I work very hard at it."

Avatar by Me
Brit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2009, 12:21 PM   #44
kes7
Fleet Captain
 
kes7's Avatar
 
Location: Sector 001
Re: Borg Origin

But that's basically what I'm saying -- I write Trek, too, (check the fanfic board, I've got 21 chapters of a story involving the Borg posted over there) and of course I have my own idea about the Borg's origin, but I would be annoyed if I had to take the Treklit version as canon, because it doesn't match my own view. And I'm not going to cram my stories full of my ideas about their origin, because it would weigh down the story and take the fun out of the Borg for the reader. I want other people to stay free to draw their own conclusions.

So sure, ground the story in truth all you want, but don't spoil the mystery for everyone else!
kes7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2009, 12:54 PM   #45
Brit
Captain
 
Brit's Avatar
 
Location: Texas
Re: Borg Origin

kes7 wrote: View Post
But that's basically what I'm saying -- I write Trek, too, (check the fanfic board, I've got 21 chapters of a story involving the Borg posted over there) and of course I have my own idea about the Borg's origin, but I would be annoyed if I had to take the Treklit version as canon, because it doesn't match my own view. And I'm not going to cram my stories full of my ideas about their origin, because it would weigh down the story and take the fun out of the Borg for the reader. I want other people to stay free to draw their own conclusions.

So sure, ground the story in truth all you want, but don't spoil the mystery for everyone else!
Unless that "mystery" is a part of the story you are telling in the first place. It's a fine line, and one which the writer not the reader decides what is written. The reader can only react.

Brit
__________________
"My name is Matai Shang and I do not exist, indeed I work very hard at it."

Avatar by Me
Brit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.