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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 11 2009, 02:43 AM   #181
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

the Kobyashi Maru bit added to the film. Like others have said, it gave an edge to the Kirk/Spock dynamic, More directly it was referenced later when Kirk winked at SpockPrime: "You know, coming back in time, giving us this information, that's... cheating."
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Old September 11 2009, 04:19 AM   #182
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

Cryogenic wrote: View Post

"Star Wars" ...one of the greatest films ever made. Not only is the editing, dialogue, performance aesthetic ...

...more high-minded than Abrams' dim, gimmick-ridden, TV-oriented, ADHD mind can comprehend ...

Remember the bald-headed Ilia in 1979? How radical an idea that still is -- that this woman is bald and highly desirable; the member of an advanced, highly sensual race ...

Sorry for the long diatribe.

.
Star wars stands up well, I disgree with you concerning the editing, on the original the scene cuts were abrupt, dialog cut were substandard as well.

Abrams found his nitch with TV, maybe the two hour movie just isn't his field, Alias viewed as a whole was excellent, "spy girl" was my mothers favorite show. And a staple in my home.

Ilia was sexy? Sir admit it, PK had the body of a boy, compare her uniform to Uhura's. There was no movement to her ass, or excitement in her voice. And yes, i ment pre-Ilia-bot.

We understand.

.

Last edited by M'Sharak; September 11 2009 at 04:45 AM. Reason: removed extra quote tag
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Old September 11 2009, 05:08 AM   #183
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

PhasersOnStun wrote: View Post
You've certainly given this quite a bit of thought!
Why, thank you. It's not so much about thought, though; more aesthetic revulsion. In my case, at least.

PhasersOnStun wrote: View Post
Far be it from me to either criticize or take away from your opinion, but to show how opinions differ:

Cryogenic wrote: View Post
How glorious it was, back in the day, when ST and SW peacefully co-existed, each adding to cinema in their own way -- SW in 1977, ST a little later in 1979.
Personally, my opinion is that Star Trek: The Motionless Picture's one contribution to cinema was to show how an almost unimaginably dull film can spawn engaging sequels. I've no doubt that you enjoyed the film and found much to both enjoy and think about and that's great, but as much as I wanted to, I really don't like it at all. To me it plays like Kubrick's discarded outtakes from 2001 using the Star Trek characters.
Given that Kubrick's discarded outtakes would be of higher quality than most filmmakers' entire professional output, I'll take that remark as a great compliment. It's funny that people that dislike "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" tend to compare it to "2001: A Space Odyssey", as if that's meant as an insult to one or both pictures. If it's contrived to somehow be analogous to saying that ST:TMP is pompous and dull, I can only dissent, on behalf of Stanley Kubrick and Robert Wise, not to mention every other creative talent involved in the conception and production of both features. Not only is "2001" arguably the greatest motion picture ever created, but ST:TMP doesn't ape it (pardon the pun) or remotely resemble it (in my opinion). Structurally, tonally, stylistically, they are light years apart.

Well, maybe it's an exaggeration to say that ST:TMP doesn't "remotely resemble" "2001"; in some ways, it seems similar, but in a polemical sense, as if it's refuting or holding up a mirror to the earlier film. Consider their resounding climaxes. In "2001", a human being sheds his corporeal form to undergo a dazzling transformation; in ST:TMP, the same basic thing happens, but by very different means, for a very different purpose. Although there are deeper readings of the films that may contest my own, I'm going to be simplistic here and assert the following: in "2001", a human being undertakes a solitary journey provoked by an external force; in ST:TMP, a human being joins with a human-machine intelligence, itself evolved from a comparatively simple machine of human origin, and the human being does this as a solution to the conflict between personal desire and social duty. The former's transformation occurred through innate curiosity teased forward by a seemingly alien force, while the latter's is a result of latent, insoluble desire, portended specifically by his love for another, and consciously embraced as an act that satisfies multiple parties (which also reflects its real-world inception, allowing for a rich meta critique, which I won't delve into here).

Why is such analysis important? Maybe it isn't, but I hold that the endings to both movies allow us to understand the films' inner objectives and the scope and nature of their concerns. By definition, ST:TMP is a much "warmer" picture; human beings are afforded a primacy of place in the cosmos, while "2001" seems to imply the inevitability of ascension, and it repeatedly stresses the feeble nature of our bodies in space; a place we are destined to explore, but also a place, suggests "2001", that may require a kind of transubstantiation. "2001" seems unapologetic about our frailties and weaknesses, and is very clinical in its depiction of the human individuals that grace its tableaux; an intellectual attitude that continues to alienate some viewers and leaves them feeling detached (but that is the point, I think); ST:TMP, however, willfully embraces the human heart, the human mind, the continual push-pull tension between logic and emotion, passion and reason, and does a manner of things, powerfully embodied in its marriage of visuals and music, in particular (consider Ilia's Theme, which is used as an overture, or the Main Theme, which is played as a sensual waltz when Kirk sees the Enterprise, inexorably linking one to the other), and also in details ranging from the macroscopic (e.g. Spock's burgeoning realisation of the vacuity of "total logic" tied inextricably to V'Ger itself; in many senses, the corollary of Kirk and his attachment to the Enterprise) to the small (e.g. the "reassuring hand" motif that occurs when Scotty is reassuring Kirk, when Kirk embraces McCoy and when Spock clasps Kirk's hand after his meld with V'Ger). Finally, we journey back to the endings. In both films, new life has been created, but only in ST:TMP do humans still remain a part of the picture, and only in ST:TMP does a very particular declaration flash up: "The human adventure is just beginning".

To bring this to a close, yes, ST:TMP might seem overly ponderous and "full of itself" next to most films, to say nothing of the staggering contrast between it and the other ST movies, but remarks that aim to denigrate its scale and beauty, most of all when they're wrought to suggest that ST:TMP is a poor man's "2001", are, to my mind, not only specious, but absurd. I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree.

PhasersOnStun wrote: View Post
I don't expect you to agree, nor do I suggest that my opinion is the final word. My point is simply that we all see things through our personal filters, differently. What I find entertaining—and the sort of entertainment I look for in cinema—is clearly different than yours. I'd disagree on most of what you wrote, but as an academic I'm very impressed with the thought you put into it.
I don't just look to be entertained; I look to be engaged. "Entertainment" is something of a dirty word to me, especially when it's applied to the elevated realm of cinema. Entertainment is an art form, but the full range of its meaning has been horribly debased in recent years, so I tend not to use it out of fear of activating my gag reflex, never mind anything else. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. To each, their own, indeed.
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Old September 11 2009, 09:18 AM   #184
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

Cryogenic wrote: View Post
StarTrek1701 wrote: View Post
Larraby wrote: View Post
That scene was totally unnecessary as the Narada was toast anyways. It was just a big excuse for the 'grand finale' where the ugly Nu-E is put in danger and to give every bridge member the obligatory screen shot of them smiling their faces off. This was a cringe worthy moment. Ugh.
As if unnecessary stuff was never shown in any Trek.

For me, the cringeworthy moments are more technical than other parts of the story.

First, when they arrive at Vulcan the E-crew are completely taken by surprise from the other ship's debris. Uh.. guys? You got long-range sensors right? Or even short range ones? USE THEM! And then Pike has to order the helm to make the ship 'duck' underneath the flying broken hull. Where the heck was the deflector?? Did they deactivate it??

Second, why couldn't Starfleet get on "full alert" mode when they heard of the news of a "lightning storm in space"? It is established early on that it is a highly unnatural occurrence so much so that even Kirk is alerted in a dazed and confused mode. So none of the eggheads in Starfleet could cross-reference the event with any of their history information??

Third, why would Nero even need the "subspace frequencies for Starfleet's border protection grids"? His ship is like in fricking God-mode! Narada was capable of taking out 47 Klingon ships and then the weak-ass Starfleet ships, why would he care to slip by the border grid when he could just shoot his way through?

Fourth, and the most jarring one: why even go through the hassle of drilling to a planet's core when you could just fucking shoot the red matter into the star of your intent-to-destroy system and go on your merry way???

Though even after all those irritations, this movie still is the most entertaining movie I have ever seen. Well yes I am biased because its Star Trek. So sue me!
The film is horribly contrived and executed start to end, though the section you describe may contain the highest density of stupidity. I feel you're being very generous in having omitted so much, so allow me to fill in some of the blanks:

1) The awful inflatable hand and "numb tongue" jokes that precede this segment really drag the movie down to the level of farce (and not good farce). I know, I know: I'm hardly the first person on the damn Internet to talk about this, but it's so incongruous with the dire transpirations driving the movie forward that it reduces the world of Trek to that of an SNL skit.

2) When Kirk bashes away (with bulbous fingers) on a computer terminal, looking for Uhura, how does he know she's even on board? In the embarkation scene (i.e. scene of the cadets boarding shuttles), Kirk protests that his name wasn't called, which means the viewer must infer he listened to everyone else being assigned, including Uhura -- and Uhura was assigned to the Farragut (this was only changed when Uhura admonished Spock and guilt-tripped him into changing his decision, which Kirk wasn't privy to).

3) When Kirk does locate Uhura, he speaks in a very harried manner, unnecessarily putting Uhura on edge (not to mention her reaction to his cartoon hands). However, even as his articulation begins to fail, you can still clearly make out he's asking Uhura if the ship was "Romulan" -- yet Uhura, "unmatched in xenolinguistics", let alone contemporary American English, can't understand Kirk or this very distinctive noun, which Kirk has to say three times before she gets it.

4) Kirk, a lowly, sickly, black-clad and obviously non-commissioned individual, rushing to the bridge of the flagship vessel, and making it through the doors and into the heart of the ship's command centre, without meeting any resistance whatsoever, is something of a stretch. Although he's doing it for a good reason, seeing him argue with and talk over Spock while trying to get Pike's full attention also makes me cringe.

5) Why would Pike, a man who wrote a bloody paper on the original "lightning storm", not show the faintest hint of doubt or trepidation until super trooper James T. Kirk lectures him and makes him realise that he might want to get a clue? This is a blatant example of cheaply propping up Kirk's superior insight and mad skillz by making the rest of Starfleet, even its venerable captains, look like brain-dead, blithering idiots. It's a wonder anyone in Starfleet could even remember their own name before the advent of Kirk, let alone pass exams or conduct missions of exploration.

6) Uhura intercepted a transmission which involved the obliteration of 47 (ugh) Klingon war birds by one Romulan vessel, and she didn't think this was significant to report or pass on to anyone? How many ships were creamed by the Borg at Wolf 359? 39, right? And that was considered a massacre, was it not? Here, not only were a further eight ships destroyed, but they belonged to a warrior race, built and manned for battle, and this was done in the 23rd Century, by a single Romulan vessel, belonging to a species known for treachery. This should have put the fear of Zeus into these people, but then, I suppose if the distance to Vulcan, Starfleet's command structure and every other aspect of verisimilitude in this movie can be reduced to pap, why not be totally nonchalant about the decimation of entire fleets by a clandestine force, too?

7) The entire bridge argument and prelude to an action sequence is shot in close-up, and badly blocked and edited, to boot. When the argument begins, Kirk is roughly in the middle of the bridge, but by the end of the scene, just before the Enterprise drops out of warp, he's clutching a console at the rear of the bridge. Further, before he's shown clutching the console, another shot depicts him simply standing, as if waiting for an order, and his position relative to Spock also changes; in one shot, Spock is stood at Kirk's left, in the next, he's at Kirk's right. You have to watch closely, but it's very clumsily done, and I guess Abrams hoped his tossed salad style of photography and editing would confuse people too much to notice. Uhura also assumes her post amazingly fast, given that in less than ten seconds she: walks over to the console, relieves the crew member, dons the famous earpiece, scans for activity and asserts that she isn't picking up any transmissions -- talk about efficient.

8) Given that the Enterprise is still at warp and still heading towards this "trap", why doesn't Pike order an emergency stop to bring the ship short of Vulcan and send details back to Starfleet, or at least prepare the ship in an orderly fashion for battle, or even retreat? Instead, with all this foreknowledge, which amounts to jack sh*t in the end, they continue all the way to Vulcan and drop straight into the maelstrom, as Kirk predicted. Nothing changes. All Kirk's bluster amounts to is the screenwriters giving the character a platform from which he can demonstrate his supposed tenacity and brilliance of mind, which then leads to the major contrivance of Pike promoting him to second officer, allowing him to leapfrog into the captain's chair via another contrivance that isn't too far away.

9) When Pike orders that the Enterprise be dropped down underneath a piece of debris, Sulu has the silliest look on his face, which is very off-putting (although it's only a brief shot, almost subliminal), and then the Enterprise actually collides with another object, ripping plating and God-knows-what from the top of its saucer, in spite of the fact that a line of chatter that precedes this moment indicates that the "deflector shields are holding", and in spite of the fact that Sulu is meant to be a master pilot -- then again, Sulu did leave the "parking brake" on, so I suppose he can't actually be trusted to peel an orange, much less steer a starship. Personally, I just think the shot of the Enterprise sustaining visible damage was just put in to look cool, and not for any logical or weighty reason.

10) "Divert auxiliary power from port nacelles to forward shields." This line makes absolutely no sense. Not only is the Enterprise clearly vulnerable from all angles, which leaves the idea of diverting power to *forward* shields looking stupid and redundant, but there are no port nacelles; there is precisely *one* nacelle at port and *one* nacelle at starboard, and that's it. Maybe the screenwriters meant for Pike to say "aft nacelles", but even the adjective "aft" would be redundant; there are only two nacelles and they're both at aft. Or, if the screenwriters really did mean to have Pike order that auxiliary power be diverted from *the* port nacelle to forward shields, then that's plain dumb, since the ship is under impulse and doesn't need *auxiliary* power going to either of its nacelles, let alone both, so why not divert as much of it to where it's needed? To me, it shows the lack of care and thought behind the picture.

I could enumerate reasons why this film blows chunks all night, but I won't. I think ten points for five minutes out of a 2-hour movie is damning and draining enough. STXI gives me brain bleed -- and after INS and NEM, that's saying something.
You know... as much as I love this movie, I can't say any of the points above are off-base. That is why the follow-up movie has to be much tighter and well thought out or else we'll be re-booting again in five years' time.
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Old September 11 2009, 10:31 AM   #185
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

Tyralak wrote: View Post
SiorX wrote: View Post
Sulu's sword fight was a bit cringe-inducing too, but I forgive it because Cho's so darn cute.
I actually thought that was kind of cool.
He had a phaser at his hip. So did Kirk before he mindlessly charged the emerging Romulan instead of shooting him, only to decide to draw his phaser mid-fight and get it slapped out of his hand.

For fuck's sake, they wouldn't have even have had to land on the thing. A hand phaser or three could have destroyed that drill platform with a single flyby.
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Old September 11 2009, 10:47 AM   #186
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
He had a phaser at his hip.
And a sword already in his hand, which he's probably more familiar with than a phaser in an actual fight (unless the Academy runs 'Lazer Quest'-style training scenarios with 'marker' phasers against other cadets to simulate combat). When in combats like that, use the weapon you're more familiar and find easier to use instinctively.

Or maybe he should have just used both, how awesome would that be?

So did Kirk before he mindlessly charged the emerging Romulan instead of shooting him, only to decide to draw his phaser mid-fight and get it slapped out of his hand.
Admiteddly, that was pretty stupid, though he did hit hard with that helmet. Wonder what they make those things out of

For fuck's sake, they wouldn't have even have had to land on the thing. A hand phaser or three could have destroyed that drill platform with a single flyby.
Well considering that a sustained barrage by two assault rifle stye disruptors at point blank range only disabled it, and it required a barrage of cannon fire from the Jellyfish to actually destroy it, just relying on hand phasers being fired by airborne humans with no targetting assists at the rate they were falling seems incredibly stupid, even by the standards of stupidity people are assigning to the characters' actions in this movie
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Old September 11 2009, 10:54 AM   #187
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

1. Just before the sword fight starts, Sulu is standing 10 feet away from the Romulan with the axe-mace. I don't care if he's a 10th level ninja samurai and only just picked up his first phaser that day - he could've made an instant kill with zero effort, and they were on the clock.

2. Yes, it was stupid.

3. A hand phaser at its maximum setting can crack a mountain in half, and they had parachutes to slow them down. The weakening of Trek weapons really ticks me off - a hand phaser should be more like EVE's blaster from WALL-E than the pea-shooter we got.
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Old September 11 2009, 11:05 AM   #188
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

JuanBolio wrote: View Post
1. Just before the sword fight starts, Sulu is standing 10 feet away from the Romulan with the axe-mace. I don't care if he's a 10th level ninja samurai and only just picked up his first phaser that day - he could've made an instant kill with zero effort, and they were on the clock.
True, but what's more fun and dramatic to watch? A non ranged fight with funky close combat weapons in a franchise that repeatedly seemed to just rely on 'cross your hands to make double sized fist', or a second or so of Sulu just popping out a phaser and downing the Romulan?

Can't even do that scene as a funny, Indiana Jones already did that

2. Yes, it was stupid.
Woohoo! Consensus!
Can't really say
3. A hand phaser at its maximum setting can crack a mountain in half, and they had parachutes to slow them down. The weakening of Trek weapons really ticks me off - a hand phaser should be more like EVE's blaster from WALL-E than the pea-shooter we got.
I'll get back to this point when I've had more time to think about it.
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Old September 11 2009, 12:43 PM   #189
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
JustKate wrote: View Post
I truly loathed the Kobayashi Maru scene - not the way he won, but the twerp-like way he acted as he was winning. Almost everybody else seems to have loved it, and I don't mean any disrespect to them (or to Chris Pine) when I say how much I hate it, but I thought it made Kirk look like an arrogant and immature jerk, not at all like somebody who ought to be made captain anytime soon.

I liked the movie a lot, but that scene just made me want to smack that apple out of his hands (yes, yes, I know the apple was one of those nods to canon - I don't care) and say, "Behave yourself! You want to be a Starfleet officer, you should stop acting like a smart-alecky teenager."
I'll go along with that.

As it played in the movie, Kirk came across as too cocky and too smug -- an arrogant jerk, you said, though a less-polite term also comes to mind. If Abrams had had Pine play it less broadly, had Kirk less pointedly thumbing his nose at the onlooking test administrators and making a mockery of the exercise, they should still have been able to make it plainly apparent to the audience that Kirk was gaming the simulation, and there would have been no need for the administrators' reactions to be changed at all. I think that it could have been a better scene for turning Kirk down a couple of notches. That was really the one place in the movie where I was thinking "Oh, come on, now, that's really overdoing it."
Totally agree. If Pine had just emulated that Kirk smile (eg from Space Seed each time he frustrated Khan) while eating the apple, that would have have won the scene.
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Old September 11 2009, 01:36 PM   #190
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

True, but what's more fun and dramatic to watch?
Sulu simply shooting him would have been better.



And why didn't the Enterprise simply fire everything she had at that drill?
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Old September 11 2009, 05:43 PM   #191
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
True, but what's more fun and dramatic to watch?
Sulu simply shooting him would have been better.
Better how? Realism/pragmatically probably. Dramatic? Hardly

And why didn't the Enterprise simply fire everything she had at that drill?
Because she had already taken a beating from the Narada, i.e. the ship the drill is attached to and still watching the Enterprise.
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Old September 11 2009, 05:59 PM   #192
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

Once again, great analysis! I have to say, a good analysis is one from which the reader has actually learned something, and I must admit I'd not looked at ST:TMP in this light before—so I feel like I did learn something. Thank you!

I just wanted to clarify a couple of my intentions:

Cryogenic wrote: View Post
Given that Kubrick's discarded outtakes would be of higher quality than most filmmakers' entire professional output, I'll take that remark as a great compliment. It's funny that people that dislike "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" tend to compare it to "2001: A Space Odyssey", as if that's meant as an insult to one or both pictures.
I agree, Kubrick is one of the greats. I was only attempting to insult ST:TMP, not 2001, which I think is revolutionary.

I will wholeheartedly admit to being a fully-brainwashed member of the MTV generation (more on relevance of this to my opinions below), which means that suffer from the same "Video ADD" that many of my "Gen X" compatriots do. I need fast cuts in order to continually engage my 20 second attention span. 2001 did not offer fast cuts, but it's beauty is completely hypnotic. ST:TMP seems like it was attempting to do that, but to me, failed. Some cases in point:

* 2001 begins with about 5 minutes of music against a blank screen. I'd never seen that before, and to be honest, doesn't capture me. But it was a unique feature of the film. That ST:TMP is the only other movie I've seen that does that, to me indicates a cheap attempt to stylistically echo or copy a superior movie. And if it didn't capture me in 2001, it flat out pissed me off in ST:TMP. I couldn't hit the FF button on my remote fast enough.

Moreover, the vibrant, energetic march of Jerry Goldsmith's theme for ST:TMP is so disconnected from the actual pacing of the movie itself that I felt this music actually worked against the film; it creates an opening expectation for an uptempo film, the music being uptempo. When in fact the film itself moves at the pace of paint drying.

* Speaking of the music, this is another minor detail that pulled me out of the film, but I'm a musician, that's my excuse (I used to teach college English in my full leather and spikes). Music is very often used to set the mood, and also very often musical themes follow characters. But every time something unexplained either happened or was being discussed, there was this jarring percussive synth bass "BWOOOOOOAAAAAAAM" accompanying it. It got to the point that we were inventing dialog:

"Captain, what could explain this anomaly?"
"BWOOOAAAAAAAAAAM"
"Must be V'Ger...can't you hear the bass?"

I am a huge fan of the late, great Bob Moog and appreciate the tribute to him in the soundtrack, but to my sensibility that was overdone enough to pull me out of the movie. By contrast, I found the music in 2001 perfectly selected and mesmerizing.

* The characterizations of the "big three" were really stiff. I'm thinking of the scene of Kirk and Bones reuniting after a time off when McCoy first beams on board. It's as if 13+ years of being friends is lost and they're starting over.

And then there's Kirk/Spock. Okay, Spock spent years on Vulcan going to Yeshiva and learning Logic, so I can understand that he was less touchy feely than he was in TOS. But you would think that again, after being friends for 13+ years, he would at least explain at their first meeting "Captain, please understand, I've spent years purging my emotions. I value our relationship as much as ever, but this is the new me." Instead he just comes off as an automaton.

I think 2001 had it easier on this count, as the characters were not known from other works. So I didn't compare them to any previous incarnations. However, I would say that I felt the characters rang true to me, whereas in ST:TMP I felt that the big three really didn't. (I feel it took STII to bring the "characterizations" back to the TOS personalities).

In the case of Spock and McCoy, I would go so far as to say that in my opinion STXI was more "true" to the spirit of the personalities in TOS than was ST:TMP.

* Finally:
the Main Theme, which is played as a sensual waltz when Kirk sees the Enterprise, inexorably linking one to the other)
I find that description particularly apt, as my wife and I jokingly referred to that as the "money shot." (for those not familiar, a porn term). In 2001, I felt the long, slow shots of space and ships were hypnotic. But I felt the overlong focus on the Enterprise in ST:TMP was a lame attempt to make boys who wanted to see a new Enterprise feel tingly down there. They could have cut the scene in half and had the same effect, while keeping the movie moving along at a faster pace. Again, I felt it was an attempt to stylistically "attach" itself to 2001 that fell short.

I'll be the first to admit that these are all stylistic, not really philosophical complaints. But then if a movie doesn't move me, I generally won't give it the time to unravel its message. 2001 did, ST:TMP did not. I will completely admit that I've never looked at ST:TMP in the light you have shown it, you have inspired me to rewatch it and look at it in a new light.
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Old September 11 2009, 06:56 PM   #193
JarodRussell
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

SilentP wrote: View Post
And why didn't the Enterprise simply fire everything she had at that drill?
Because she had already taken a beating from the Narada, i.e. the ship the drill is attached to and still watching the Enterprise.
I just had flashes of Pike sacrificing himself by crashing his shuttle into the drill, saving the entire planet because Nero wouldn't have been able to use the Red Matter.
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Old September 11 2009, 07:47 PM   #194
OneBuckFilms
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

Cryogenic wrote: View Post
The film is horribly contrived and executed start to end, though the section you describe may contain the highest density of stupidity. I feel you're being very generous in having omitted so much, so allow me to fill in some of the blanks:
Allow me to address these ...
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
1) The awful inflatable hand and "numb tongue" jokes that precede this segment really drag the movie down to the level of farce (and not good farce). I know, I know: I'm hardly the first person on the damn Internet to talk about this, but it's so incongruous with the dire transpirations driving the movie forward that it reduces the world of Trek to that of an SNL skit.
Actually, I found it pretty funny, and it added a sense of energy to the scene, keeping things light.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
2) When Kirk bashes away (with bulbous fingers) on a computer terminal, looking for Uhura, how does he know she's even on board? In the embarkation scene (i.e. scene of the cadets boarding shuttles), Kirk protests that his name wasn't called, which means the viewer must infer he listened to everyone else being assigned, including Uhura -- and Uhura was assigned to the Farragut (this was only changed when Uhura admonished Spock and guilt-tripped him into changing his decision, which Kirk wasn't privy to).
Kirk likely had several antagonistic encounters, and Uhura was surprised at not being assigned. As far as Kirk was concerned, she was on board, as she likely would have told him in passing.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
3) When Kirk does locate Uhura, he speaks in a very harried manner, unnecessarily putting Uhura on edge (not to mention her reaction to his cartoon hands). However, even as his articulation begins to fail, you can still clearly make out he's asking Uhura if the ship was "Romulan" -- yet Uhura, "unmatched in xenolinguistics", let alone contemporary American English, can't understand Kirk or this very distinctive noun, which Kirk has to say three times before she gets it.
Well, she's used to people, even in other languages, speaking mostly without impedement.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
4) Kirk, a lowly, sickly, black-clad and obviously non-commissioned individual, rushing to the bridge of the flagship vessel, and making it through the doors and into the heart of the ship's command centre, without meeting any resistance whatsoever, is something of a stretch. Although he's doing it for a good reason, seeing him argue with and talk over Spock while trying to get Pike's full attention also makes me cringe.
Starfleet doesn't post guards like on a Romulan ship, and he probably had security clearance since he was in Starfleet, Cadet or not.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
5) Why would Pike, a man who wrote a bloody paper on the original "lightning storm", not show the faintest hint of doubt or trepidation until super trooper James T. Kirk lectures him and makes him realise that he might want to get a clue? This is a blatant example of cheaply propping up Kirk's superior insight and mad skillz by making the rest of Starfleet, even its venerable captains, look like brain-dead, blithering idiots. It's a wonder anyone in Starfleet could even remember their own name before the advent of Kirk, let alone pass exams or conduct missions of exploration.
Because he was thinking about an emergency situation, not Kirk's father and a dissertation he wrote a while back. I'm a coder, and I can't remember code I wrote even 1 year ago without getting more than mention of an exception.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
6) Uhura intercepted a transmission which involved the obliteration of 47 (ugh) Klingon war birds by one Romulan vessel, and she didn't think this was significant to report or pass on to anyone? How many ships were creamed by the Borg at Wolf 359? 39, right? And that was considered a massacre, was it not? Here, not only were a further eight ships destroyed, but they belonged to a warrior race, built and manned for battle, and this was done in the 23rd Century, by a single Romulan vessel, belonging to a species known for treachery. This should have put the fear of Zeus into these people, but then, I suppose if the distance to Vulcan, Starfleet's command structure and every other aspect of verisimilitude in this movie can be reduced to pap, why not be totally nonchalant about the decimation of entire fleets by a clandestine force, too?
She probably passed the information further up the chain of command, and the big event for Starfleet seems to be in the Laurentian System, so a prisoner escape, along with the destruction of many Klingon ships, may not have made major headlines.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
7) The entire bridge argument and prelude to an action sequence is shot in close-up, and badly blocked and edited, to boot. When the argument begins, Kirk is roughly in the middle of the bridge, but by the end of the scene, just before the Enterprise drops out of warp, he's clutching a console at the rear of the bridge. Further, before he's shown clutching the console, another shot depicts him simply standing, as if waiting for an order, and his position relative to Spock also changes; in one shot, Spock is stood at Kirk's left, in the next, he's at Kirk's right. You have to watch closely, but it's very clumsily done, and I guess Abrams hoped his tossed salad style of photography and editing would confuse people too much to notice. Uhura also assumes her post amazingly fast, given that in less than ten seconds she: walks over to the console, relieves the crew member, dons the famous earpiece, scans for activity and asserts that she isn't picking up any transmissions -- talk about efficient.
Now this is something you have to be paying such close attention to to notice, and for something so badly blocked and edited, I found it very effective.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
8) Given that the Enterprise is still at warp and still heading towards this "trap", why doesn't Pike order an emergency stop to bring the ship short of Vulcan and send details back to Starfleet, or at least prepare the ship in an orderly fashion for battle, or even retreat? Instead, with all this foreknowledge, which amounts to jack sh*t in the end, they continue all the way to Vulcan and drop straight into the maelstrom, as Kirk predicted. Nothing changes. All Kirk's bluster amounts to is the screenwriters giving the character a platform from which he can demonstrate his supposed tenacity and brilliance of mind, which then leads to the major contrivance of Pike promoting him to second officer, allowing him to leapfrog into the captain's chair via another contrivance that isn't too far away.
Pike ordered Shields Up and Red Alert, since whatever was happening at Vulcan had to be dealt with. It was a decision made very quickly once they established a probable attack, and if anyone required assistance, it was likely to be of the emergency kind, where contacting starfleet would take too much time and likely cost lives, and not just Starfleet.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
9) When Pike orders that the Enterprise be dropped down underneath a piece of debris, Sulu has the silliest look on his face, which is very off-putting (although it's only a brief shot, almost subliminal), and then the Enterprise actually collides with another object, ripping plating and God-knows-what from the top of its saucer, in spite of the fact that a line of chatter that precedes this moment indicates that the "deflector shields are holding", and in spite of the fact that Sulu is meant to be a master pilot -- then again, Sulu did leave the "parking brake" on, so I suppose he can't actually be trusted to peel an orange, much less steer a starship. Personally, I just think the shot of the Enterprise sustaining visible damage was just put in to look cool, and not for any logical or weighty reason.
Actually, what was scraped off was NOT from the saucer, but one of the Nacelles, and may have been surface plating. The maneuver probably had to be done so quick that the Enterprise may not have been able to maneuver fast enough.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
10) "Divert auxiliary power from port nacelles to forward shields." This line makes absolutely no sense. Not only is the Enterprise clearly vulnerable from all angles, which leaves the idea of diverting power to *forward* shields looking stupid and redundant, but there are no port nacelles; there is precisely *one* nacelle at port and *one* nacelle at starboard, and that's it. Maybe the screenwriters meant for Pike to say "aft nacelles", but even the adjective "aft" would be redundant; there are only two nacelles and they're both at aft. Or, if the screenwriters really did mean to have Pike order that auxiliary power be diverted from *the* port nacelle to forward shields, then that's plain dumb, since the ship is under impulse and doesn't need *auxiliary* power going to either of its nacelles, let alone both, so why not divert as much of it to where it's needed? To me, it shows the lack of care and thought behind the picture.
Forward is the direction the Enterprise is heading in, auxiliary power was likely used to supplement mains power, and the power from one Nacelle was probably sufficient. Also, the Aux power may refer to power extracted from the hydrogen collectors at the front of the Nacelles.
Cryogenic wrote: View Post
I could enumerate reasons why this film blows chunks all night, but I won't. I think ten points for five minutes out of a 2-hour movie is damning and draining enough. STXI gives me brain bleed -- and after INS and NEM, that's saying something.
You sir, are nitpicking to an unreasonable extreme, with a level of scrutiny that NO dramatic presentation can ever hope to pass.

In your case, Shatner's SNL statement of "Get A Life" might actually be applicable.
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Old September 11 2009, 08:56 PM   #195
childofdarkness
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Re: Moments that really made you cringe or disliked

OK, I loved the movie and enjoyed it immensely. However, should I ever stop to think about the premise, it may begin to bug me.
A Romulan miner who loves his homeworld sees it in danger. Evidently only one fellow (Spock) offers a solution that even has ahope of working. His attempt fails, and the world is destroyed. The aforementioned Romulan miner then loses it and decides that he simply must kill the only guy who even tried to help. He somehow manages to take a mining ship back in time and in retaliation for a well-meant attempt that failed, attempts to destroy all worlds related to Spock.

Then a guy who cheated on his Academy test and should not have been on any Fleet ship in the first place, not only ends up on such a ship, but is made interim captain by an actual captain who earned his rank and should probably know better.

Also, even if Spock's solution had worked, would it not have sucked up the Romulan sun, in which case the Romulan homeworld and all of its inhabitants would have quickly frozen to death anyway?

What did I miss? I sneezedonce or twice in the cold theatre in which I watched this film. Did I miss some critical bits during those sneezes?

And once again, let me reiterate that I did completely love watching this movie, and I realize it is only a movie, but someone *did* ask if anything about it bothered us....
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