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Old August 29 2009, 08:04 PM   #61
deg3D
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

DiSiLLUSiON wrote: View Post
I'd like to think of the entire hull to be self-illuminating. Not much, but enough to be seen in the stark blackness of deep space.

As for who sees it, well... first of all, most windows offer at least a little piece of the hull in the view. Psychologically, I would say it would keep the shipboard crew grounded, even when not in a star system; to remind them that they're a part of a bigger whole. Then there's the whole idea about Starfleet not sneaking around; they are soaring proudly in the depths of space. At the least, the visual scanners of other ships (even possible enemies) should be able to get a decent picture instead of merely a heat-related visual.
EXACTLY!, and I might add, even "in-universe" I feel peeps would still add aestethics-based design touches to ships for the sole purpose of aestethics-based design. There is a technical aspect and/or reasoning and/or design behind applied psychology as well. The parts effected just can't be held in one's hands. Nevertheless, they are just as real. You can't hold a thought in your hand, and yet: Does that render it not-real, and thus beyond consideration?

Do stripes and/or paint-schemes on aircraft serve any other purpose beyond the psychological? No. And yet, there they are.

deg
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Old August 29 2009, 08:13 PM   #62
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

deg3D wrote: View Post

Do stripes and/or paint-schemes on aircraft serve any other purpose beyond the psychological? No. And yet, there they are.

deg
Well some paint schemes are called "camouflage" and as such they are not just there to impress someone.
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Old August 29 2009, 08:30 PM   #63
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Santaman wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post

Do stripes and/or paint-schemes on aircraft serve any other purpose beyond the psychological? No. And yet, there they are.

deg
Well some paint schemes are called "camouflage" and as such they are not just there to impress someone.
Knew this would come up, so to be clear, not what I'm talkin' about. Those serve a specific purpose as to the (military) aircraft's effectual purpose.

Take commercial airliners or freight aircraft (UPS, FedEx, etc.), or even say the Thunderbirds or the Blue Angels. Cruiseships, exploratory vessels, etc. Heck, even NASA puts mission art and logos on their craft/rockets.

And there are often spots positioned to specifically light up such graphics.

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Last edited by deg3D; August 29 2009 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Proper use of punctuation is important.
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Old August 29 2009, 08:40 PM   #64
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Interesting you mention aircraft. Commercial jetliners are marked to establish brand. So you like to fly Alaskan? It's reassuring that the plane has a giant eskimo painted on the tail. At night, there are spotlights to keep those markings visible while the plane is at the airport, but once it's in flight and no one can see it from the outside, the lights are turned off. I expect the spotlights on a Starfleet ship are the same, just meant to light the ship up while in orbit or in dock. Not exactly to establish brand (though there is no doubt some of that) but rather to establish identity. But once the ship is cruising in deep space, normally they would probably be shut off. Though, for reasons of cinema, they generally are left on for the benefit of the audience.

--Alex
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Old August 29 2009, 08:42 PM   #65
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

(Is an answer to Deg) Agreed. even the navy used to paint ships in non purpose colours for a while.
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Old August 29 2009, 09:03 PM   #66
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Albertese wrote: View Post
Interesting you mention aircraft. Commercial jetliners are marked to establish brand. So you like to fly Alaskan? It's reassuring that the plane has a giant eskimo painted on the tail. At night, there are spotlights to keep those markings visible while the plane is at the airport, but once it's in flight and no one can see it from the outside, the lights are turned off. I expect the spotlights on a Starfleet ship are the same, just meant to light the ship up while in orbit or in dock. Not exactly to establish brand (though there is no doubt some of that) but rather to establish identity. But once the ship is cruising in deep space, normally they would probably be shut off. Though, for reasons of cinema, they generally are left on for the benefit of the audience.

--Alex
I did not know that about commercial airliners turning off their identity floods when in flight, Alex. If I may, how do you know this?

Either way, as you say, in cinema, the audience is always there, so it's rendered a moot point.

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Old August 29 2009, 09:14 PM   #67
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Santaman wrote: View Post
(Is an answer to Deg) Agreed. even the navy used to paint ships in non purpose colours for a while.
Tactically, non purpose perhaps.

You get down to the nitty-gritty of it all, everything in existence has a "purpose" behind it. Otherwise, it would not exist. It's just whether or not one can discern that purpose, and/or a relation of value in regard to one's self.

Assigning any or no subjective value to anything has ultimately no meaning whatsoever passed anyone other than the person doing it.

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Old August 29 2009, 09:29 PM   #68
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Santaman wrote: View Post
(Is an answer to Deg) Agreed. even the navy used to paint ships in non purpose colours for a while.
And to take it one step further (or back perhaps) take a look at say, a Spanish Galleon. My God! the lengths they would go with artistically craving and painting the wood-work on those vessels!

They were veritable floating works of art, as well as very formidable military vessels no less.

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Old August 29 2009, 09:41 PM   #69
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

M'Kay, there's entirely too much yakking and not enough pictures in this thread. Spill the goodies, deg!

(btw, if someone hasn't already suggested it, how about saying that the nacelle registry light source is a spotlight on the trailing edge of the saucer that points backwards and is trained just so on the appropriate spot? )
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Old August 29 2009, 10:04 PM   #70
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
M'Kay, there's entirely too much yakking and not enough pictures in this thread. Spill the goodies, deg!

(btw, if someone hasn't already suggested it, how about saying that the nacelle registry light source is a spotlight on the trailing edge of the saucer that points backwards and is trained just so on the appropriate spot?
Not sure that would work, Scott. I'd have to try it first, but my guess, the spot would get distorted. However, it would be in a direction going aft as far as fall-off. And that's a plus right there, as when I tried it off the exterior intercoolers it fell off going toward the bow and that killed the overall flow of her, IMO.

I will check it out though.

Here's one for you, Prof. I believe I toned the copper glow down a touch though since this render, so this is not the final look. Close, but not final, eh. Still working on the bussard(s) animation effect too, so it may change a touch given the addition of interior pulsating lights. Still, I like this overall effect and want to stick as close to it as I can to it come animating.



Enjoy!

deg

PS. Dig your new avie. Gotta love a 3/4 aft E, eh.
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Last edited by deg3D; August 30 2009 at 01:56 AM. Reason: Typo-demon...
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Old August 29 2009, 10:23 PM   #71
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

deg3D wrote: View Post
I did not know that about commercial airliners turning off their identity floods when in flight, Alex. If I may, how do you know this?
He's absolutely correct. When in flight, they'll have "running lights" on (long-distance locating flashers, basically), but nothing else.

There are two reasons for this. The main, and biggest, issue is simply one of efficiency. The power available on an airliner is limited. You have so much fuel. That fuel is burnt, with some of it converted into direct thrust, and some being tapped off the engines (by generator hardware located in the engine nacelles, typically tied directly into the main accessory gearbox assembly). Some is also used to drive air-pressurization hardware and so forth, which is not electrically powered (or rather, is TYPICALLY not electrical... these things do vary from design to design to one extent or another).

Running those lights consumes power. Every tiny bit of power consumed in flight is generated by fuel, and carrying more fuel also causes the ship to be heavier, making it require even more energy for the entire flight.

So the simple answer is... they turn off the exterior floods (as well as the landing floods and so forth) when in flight because THEY SERVE NO PURPOSE YET THEY CONSUME ENERGY.

There is another reason that this is often done as well, though it's far less common. In some circumstances, they turn these off because it makes the aircraft far less likely to be visually located. When flying near "hot spots" in the world, commercial airliners will often require that the interior shades be drawn, and they will shut down the running lights. It doesn't do a thing to protect against radar detection, but it does make it less likely to get brought down by someone who just happens to see you.

The main reason it's done is the first. The second explanation isn't very common. But some of us, who've traveled near "hot zones" at times, have experienced that as well.
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Old August 29 2009, 10:25 PM   #72
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

ooooooo me likey alot
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Old August 29 2009, 10:27 PM   #73
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

deg3D wrote: View Post
Santaman wrote: View Post
In this case I think even Cary will be happy that there's somekind of technical explanation.

As for the cameras, yes of course, bloody Federation police speed cams!
Ahhhh, UFP speed cams, well there ya have it, eh.

deg
As the old saying goes, "186,000 miles per second, it's not just a good idea, it's the law."
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Old August 29 2009, 10:51 PM   #74
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
I did not know that about commercial airliners turning off their identity floods when in flight, Alex. If I may, how do you know this?
He's absolutely correct. When in flight, they'll have "running lights" on (long-distance locating flashers, basically), but nothing else.

There are two reasons for this. The main, and biggest, issue is simply one of efficiency. The power available on an airliner is limited. You have so much fuel. That fuel is burnt, with some of it converted into direct thrust, and some being tapped off the engines (by generator hardware located in the engine nacelles, typically tied directly into the main accessory gearbox assembly). Some is also used to drive air-pressurization hardware and so forth, which is not electrically powered (or rather, is TYPICALLY not electrical... these things do vary from design to design to one extent or another).

Running those lights consumes power. Every tiny bit of power consumed in flight is generated by fuel, and carrying more fuel also causes the ship to be heavier, making it require even more energy for the entire flight.

So the simple answer is... they turn off the exterior floods (as well as the landing floods and so forth) when in flight because THEY SERVE NO PURPOSE YET THEY CONSUME ENERGY.

There is another reason that this is often done as well, though it's far less common. In some circumstances, they turn these off because it makes the aircraft far less likely to be visually located. When flying near "hot spots" in the world, commercial airliners will often require that the interior shades be drawn, and they will shut down the running lights. It doesn't do a thing to protect against radar detection, but it does make it less likely to get brought down by someone who just happens to see you.

The main reason it's done is the first. The second explanation isn't very common. But some of us, who've traveled near "hot zones" at times, have experienced that as well.
Ah, thanks, Cary. Good to know. Learn somethin' new every day: check.

kaisernathan1701 wrote: View Post
ooooooo me likey alot
Thanks, dude, glad you likey.

sojourner wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
Santaman wrote: View Post
In this case I think even Cary will be happy that there's somekind of technical explanation.

As for the cameras, yes of course, bloody Federation police speed cams!
Ahhhh, UFP speed cams, well there ya have it, eh.

deg
As the old saying goes, "186,000 miles per second, it's not just a good idea, it's the law."
Good one, dude.

deg
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Old August 29 2009, 11:19 PM   #75
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

sojourner wrote: View Post

As the old saying goes, "186,000 miles per second, it's not just a good idea, it's the law."
And look at your location! Piers Anthony, baby! And Jumper the spider!

deg
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