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Old August 28 2009, 12:33 AM   #16
Cary L. Brown
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

deg3D wrote: View Post
Thanks, guys.

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
While I'm not 100% sold on every single "tweak" either you or Vektor have made on your versions,...

You should give it a go then, Cary.

Out of E curiosity, what would you do with her that would be different?

deg
Well, the main quibbles I have with yours are with the "ring around B/C deck" (which seems pretty "forced"), your deflector/sensor dish (I like the bronze/copper appearance... yours is too "gray" for my taste and a bit too "greeblied"... something you don't want when dealing with a parabolic mirror, after all!), and (and this is much less significant) your use of Microgramma as the font. I also would prefer not having the "glowy nacelle panels."

Overall, I like it. The "ring" and the dish are my big issues (and they're not THAT big).

On Vektor's ... it's the nacelles which are TOO different, and the "artistic" shapes of the "L" panels near the impulse deck which bug me most. But again... I think his work is gorgeous and I don't really "mind" any of these things...

As for "my take," well... if you've been following, you know I've been doing my own version (currently on hiatus, but I'll get back to it). My goal with that is to make something which is really "true TOS" with only those minimal tweaks required to make it all match up and make, with minimal application of "magic," some form of engineering sense.

You HAVE seen that thread, haven't you? It's not "active" at the moment, really... I'm not doing any work on that right now (too much to do at work, too much going on in my personal life - mostly involving someone I hope will be sticking around in my life for a long time to come! - and a technical snag at home as well). But in case you really haven't seen it, feel free to browse it through...
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=89810
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Old August 28 2009, 12:33 AM   #17
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Great work. I can not wait to see more. This is a very good looking Enterprise and well thought out.
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Old August 28 2009, 01:01 AM   #18
deg3D
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
Thanks, guys.

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
While I'm not 100% sold on every single "tweak" either you or Vektor have made on your versions,...

You should give it a go then, Cary.

Out of E curiosity, what would you do with her that would be different?

deg
Well, the main quibbles I have with yours are with the "ring around B/C deck" (which seems pretty "forced"), your deflector/sensor dish (I like the bronze/copper appearance... yours is too "gray" for my taste and a bit too "greeblied"... something you don't want when dealing with a parabolic mirror, after all!), and (and this is much less significant) your use of Microgramma as the font. I also would prefer not having the "glowy nacelle panels."

Overall, I like it. The "ring" and the dish are my big issues (and they're not THAT big).

On Vektor's ... it's the nacelles which are TOO different, and the "artistic" shapes of the "L" panels near the impulse deck which bug me most. But again... I think his work is gorgeous and I don't really "mind" any of these things...

As for "my take," well... if you've been following, you know I've been doing my own version (currently on hiatus, but I'll get back to it). My goal with that is to make something which is really "true TOS" with only those minimal tweaks required to make it all match up and make, with minimal application of "magic," some form of engineering sense.

You HAVE seen that thread, haven't you? It's not "active" at the moment, really... I'm not doing any work on that right now (too much to do at work, too much going on in my personal life - mostly involving someone I hope will be sticking around in my life for a long time to come! - and a technical snag at home as well). But in case you really haven't seen it, feel free to browse it through...
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=89810
Ah nice stuff, dude. I look forward to seeing more. I have indeed seen it, and may have commented as well. I like the cut-away stuff! Your E appears to be more in line with recreating the original in CG. That was not the direction I myself wanted to go in.

You will be happy to know, I am returning to a more copper color for the dish, at least as far as the glow I have around it goes. As to the nurnies, and the parabolic mirror, another lean toward favoring interest and aestethics over reality, which I can reason out for myself anywho, based on, given 300+ years, zero-point amplifiers development, neutral deflection, manipulation of 3D space, or what-not. TBT, a parabolic mirror sounds way to primitive to me.

As to "ring around B/C deck", lost me, eh...

As to V's nacelles, that's my fav part of his design.

Thanks for the feed-back. Again, look forward to seein' more of your take of her, eh.

Sarvek wrote: View Post
Great work. I can not wait to see more. This is a very good looking Enterprise and well thought out.
Thanks much, Sarvek. More to come, yes.

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Last edited by deg3D; August 28 2009 at 02:56 AM.
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Old August 28 2009, 01:25 AM   #19
xraydeltaone
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Awesome work! I really like what you've done with it. My only 'issue,' if you can call it that is the font. It looks a little stretched horizontally, but it's a really minor niggle.

Regarding the self illumination on the nacelle pennant, what about something similar to the row of lights above and below the pennant as in the Kelvin? A quick google search found this which illustrates ILM's solution nicely.

What you have looks great, but this might work if you're trying to stick with what would be physically possible, glowing panels aside.
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Old August 28 2009, 01:36 AM   #20
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Yes indeed. That's gorgeous. Now post some more pics please. Think of the children
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Old August 28 2009, 03:42 AM   #21
Cary L. Brown
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

deg3D wrote: View Post
As to "ring around B/C deck", lost me, eh...
Ah, no problem, I'll explain...

The bridge is on "Deck 1" which is also sometimes called "A-deck." The teardrop-shaped superstructure underneath that is made up of decks 2 and 3, sometimes called "B-deck" and "C-deck."

I've always referred to the "teardrop-shaped superstructure" as the "B/C-deck superstructure," for lack of any better term.

The TMP ship has a ring around her B/C-deck superstructure. I think of that as the main subspace antenna, personally, though there's no "canon" reason to think that of course. The exposed "inset ring" is a feature added in the TMP ship to improve communication capabilities, as far as I'm concerned.

On your ship, it doesn't seem like the ship is "built around" that shape, however... it just strikes me as "graphics" without any function. The part in front, or even on the sides, seems OK, but the aftmost portion of that "ring" seems to just be a painted on "racing strip" detail with no evident function.

I think that the shape could be "tweaked" to make it seem more like an integral part of the ship. Maybe the "inset ring" doesn't continue all the way around? Or maybe the trailing edge of the "teardrop" is a vertical band going from behind the bridge and aft, linking into the "ring" at some point?

Vektor did a "ring" as well, but his is a bit more subtle than this one, so it doesn't "jar" me as much. Maybe just making it a bit less prominent would be enough?

Anyway, that's what I'm talking about. It's your ship... your mileage may vary... I'm just telling you my own gut reaction.
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Old August 28 2009, 04:20 AM   #22
deg3D
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Thanks, xraydeltaone and FrontLine.

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
As to "ring around B/C deck", lost me, eh...
Ah, no problem, I'll explain...

The bridge is on "Deck 1" which is also sometimes called "A-deck." The teardrop-shaped superstructure underneath that is made up of decks 2 and 3, sometimes called "B-deck" and "C-deck."

I've always referred to the "teardrop-shaped superstructure" as the "B/C-deck superstructure," for lack of any better term.

The TMP ship has a ring around her B/C-deck superstructure. I think of that as the main subspace antenna, personally, though there's no "canon" reason to think that of course. The exposed "inset ring" is a feature added in the TMP ship to improve communication capabilities, as far as I'm concerned.

On your ship, it doesn't seem like the ship is "built around" that shape, however... it just strikes me as "graphics" without any function. The part in front, or even on the sides, seems OK, but the aftmost portion of that "ring" seems to just be a painted on "racing strip" detail with no evident function.

I think that the shape could be "tweaked" to make it seem more like an integral part of the ship. Maybe the "inset ring" doesn't continue all the way around? Or maybe the trailing edge of the "teardrop" is a vertical band going from behind the bridge and aft, linking into the "ring" at some point?

Vektor did a "ring" as well, but his is a bit more subtle than this one, so it doesn't "jar" me as much. Maybe just making it a bit less prominent would be enough?

Anyway, that's what I'm talking about. It's your ship... your mileage may vary... I'm just telling you my own gut reaction.

Ah, OK, gotcha. See this is where I part ways with some of you über-tech 'n' deck orientated Trek fans. While I do concern myself to a point, I don't sweat every nut and bolt of Trek tech 'n' deck, as I put it.

There's an old saying, you can't please all the peeps all the time, and the reason for that is; everything is ultimately subjective, esp. when it comes to made-up stuff, be it canon and esp. when it's not canon, but pure subjective speculation, case in point, your concept just explained for the "racing stripe."

A fair enough concept, as any-thing's OK if it's made-up (within some reason, I guess), but I never assigned any "purpose" to the stripe. It was, to me, as you called it, a racing stripe, on TMP E. And on mine own E, as there is a value in real life to making stuff look cool, for no other value than that. It's a psychologically-based reason, based in aestethics as well as image projection. Humans like to make stuff that looks cool, and often do so solely for that purpose, such as racing stripes or attractive body-lines on cars or planes, etc. etc, starships to boot.

That's my thinking anywho.

Thanks again for takin' the time out to share your POV, dude.

Who knows, I may mull around in my head and it may take root some time (it's been known to happen), but as of this writing, I dig the stripe, adding to E's looks and style. I'm all for form following function, but at times, form is just good for form's sake itself. When form as form is its serving function.

deg
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Old August 28 2009, 05:08 AM   #23
M'Sharak
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

deg3D wrote: View Post
Sneak-peek at what's to come...

Enjoy.

deg

click thumbnail to enlarge...

Very nice, deg.
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Old August 28 2009, 05:28 AM   #24
Disillusioned
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Damn fine ship if you ask me.

I'd be interested to see your take on the interiors, too, if you ever got time to do it.
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Old August 28 2009, 06:00 AM   #25
Psion
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

I love it.

My only nitpick is with the forward nacelle caps ... they look a little cartoonish. Like they're made out of pixels instead of something solid. I don't recall thinking that about your previous effort, however, so it must be the lighting.

Speaking of lighting, I've come to agree with your notions of fantasy lighting. Technically, there should be a source for all lit areas, but such sources would look wrong on this ship. So light it with magic. Maybe it's controlled holographic lighting, or phosphorescent paneling, or maybe the light's being bent by controlled gravity. If everything else looks right, I'll forgive one or two transgressions in favor of making this queen of the stars look more regal.

Stars ...

Where are all the stars? I wonder what a deg3D amoeba looks like?
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Old August 28 2009, 03:01 PM   #26
deg3D
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Thanks, gents.

Psion wrote: View Post
I love it.

My only nitpick is with the forward nacelle caps ... they look a little cartoonish. Like they're made out of pixels instead of something solid. I don't recall thinking that about your previous effort, however, so it must be the lighting.

Speaking of lighting, I've come to agree with your notions of fantasy lighting. Technically, there should be a source for all lit areas, but such sources would look wrong on this ship. So light it with magic. Maybe it's controlled holographic lighting, or phosphorescent paneling, or maybe the light's being bent by controlled gravity. If everything else looks right, I'll forgive one or two transgressions in favor of making this queen of the stars look more regal.

Stars ...

Where are all the stars? I wonder what a deg3D amoeba looks like?

See, that's the exactly opposite with me regarding the bussards, Psion. I liked the last ones, but felt the were too oversatuarted, thus kinda cartoony. And the bussards are not solid, they are chambers, BTW. These I like much more. Oh, and they are pixels. Come to think of it, it's all pixels!

As to lighting: film lighting is not reality-based, any more than sound or makeup in film is reality-based.

Why do women that just woke up in bed have perfect makeup on, like it was applied and maintained by a professional makeup artist five minutes before? Well, because it was! That's the nature of the film business, to make things interesting and/or attractive, and reality is more often sacrificed to do so, than most peeps really know and/or perceive. We have been entrained as audiences at this point to be "used to" movie lighting, as being natural when we watch a film. Same goes for sound, and most all aspects of "reality" on film.

Just pay attention to the way actor's faces are lit some time. It's rarely "natural" lighting. Speaking of unexplained Trek spotlights, did Kirk have a yeoman that held a soft-filtered bounce-light/reflector just right, to fall across his eyes for handsome dramatic Captain-y effect? Nothing lit in films is ever 100% natural lighting. Esp. in VFX. It's all about what looks good, within tolerances of course.

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Old August 28 2009, 03:01 PM   #27
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

I guess if he wanted to do something more "realistic" in regards to the spotlights, he could try something like they did for the Kelvin in the new movie, or on BSG, which featured a row of spotlights above and below the name in order to illuminate the area in between them.
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Old August 28 2009, 03:01 PM   #28
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

Disillusioned wrote: View Post
I guess if he wanted to do something more "realistic" in regards to the spotlights, he could try something like they did for the Kelvin in the new movie, or on BSG, which featured a row of spotlights above and below the name in order to illuminate the area in between them.
I may consider that option, eh.

Thanks guys.

deg
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Old August 28 2009, 03:03 PM   #29
Disillusioned
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

No problem, always happy to help.
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Old August 28 2009, 03:05 PM   #30
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Re: What's this...? TOS.5.2

I can only ape what's been said so far. Terrific work and miles better then the 'nu' Enterprise.
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