RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,213
Posts: 5,437,591
Members: 24,952
Currently online: 484
Newest member: secondhandmeth

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 24 2014, 04:09 AM   #1
allstar77
Lieutenant Commander
 
TNG changes to TOS

Was there anything TNG changed about the original that you disliked? For example, I hated the ridges added to the Romulans.
allstar77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 04:40 AM   #2
Avro Arrow
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: TNG changes to TOS

One thing that I noticed as a change was that TNG established a nuclear World War III in their very first episode, whereas TOS seemed to say no such war occurred. (Spock: "It would mean they fought the war your Earth avoided". And yes, I know that in "Breads and Circuses" Spock also referred to a death toll in the third world war, but taken with "Space Seed", that seems to point to the Eugenics Wars -> Spock: "The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called World War." McCoy: "The Eugenics Wars.")

But, yeah, ridged Romulans were dumb. (And oddly, ENT went with the ridges, but the two TOS movies to show Romulans, both which came out well after "The Neutral Zone", kept the original TOS style.)
__________________
You preach about love, teach about faith / But all your beliefs are still rooted in hate
- Billy Talent, "Viking Death March"
Avro Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 05:16 AM   #3
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: TNG changes to TOS

The movies always did their own thing. Their Klingons looked different too. I think only the make up in STIII evoke the TNG style. The movies seemed to go with a "cleaner" style the left the actors faces more "open".
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 05:58 AM   #4
jimbotron
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
Re: TNG changes to TOS

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The movies always did their own thing. Their Klingons looked different too. I think only the make up in STIII evoke the TNG style. The movies seemed to go with a "cleaner" style the left the actors faces more "open".
Not to mention Star Trek VI established that the Klingon homeworld would be uninhabitable within 50 years, and that was a year and a half after TNG's Sins of the Father.

I guess the one thing I didn't like from TOS to TNG was making the Enterprise a family ship. Though Roddenberry says Starfleet isn't the military, Starfleet has always been structured like a military, from the ranking system and chain of command, to having an academy, and having enlisted men vs. officers. So continuing with the "non-military military" Starfleet in the 24th century aboard a supposed Kumbaya starship that has dozens of phaser banks and hundreds of photon torpedoes, I call bullshit on the idea that it would have a preschool.
jimbotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 06:05 AM   #5
Mojochi
Commodore
 
Mojochi's Avatar
 
Re: TNG changes to TOS

The abandonment of some of the more memorable TOS alien races, Andorians, Orions, Gorn, etc...
Mojochi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 06:41 AM   #6
Elvira
Vice Admiral
 
Elvira's Avatar
 
Location: t'girl
Re: TNG changes to TOS

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
Spock: "It would mean they fought the war your Earth avoided"
Spock was saying Earth avoided a biological war. He wasn't speaking of a nuclear war, which Humanity did have.

__________________
.
no mere mortal can resist the evil of the thriller
Elvira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 06:54 AM   #7
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: TNG changes to TOS

allstar77 wrote: View Post
Was there anything TNG changed about the original that you disliked? For example, I hated the ridges added to the Romulans.
It always struck me, and this predates the TNG movies, that a lot of what TNG changed in the early seasons, they actually spent a lot of time trying to unravel later on, and return to a more TOS-like keel. For example, early TNG established a universe that was pretty much without conflict, where even the great galactic powers of the past (the Klingons in particular) are no longer enemies. But later on, with the re-introduction of Romulans and the introduction of Cardassians and Borg, there seemed to be this concerted effort to re-militarize the format, as if somebody up there had realized that Star Trek needed that in order to actually "be" Star Trek. They were able to go further with it in DS9 because they were able to make it out of whole cloth, and the TNG movies pretty much canonized it. But I always suspected that the powers that be on the TNG television episodes were always quietly edging back to that more knife's-edge view of the universe as seen in TOS and the TOS movies. The TNG we were presented with at the end of it's life was a much more 'dangerous' place than the TNG we were introduced to back in "Farpoint".
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 11:33 AM   #8
allstar77
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TNG changes to TOS

I thought families on board was a stupid idea. I could see Wesley tagging along with Beverly (it was always a Vickie from the Love Boat sort of thing though), but who packs up their children and goes into space? The Borg show up and you got Borg preschool. I cheered when Q showed Picard that space is dangerous. If I had a kid, that would have been it for me. Ship Junior back to Earth ASAP.
allstar77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 02:20 PM   #9
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: TNG changes to TOS

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The movies always did their own thing. Their Klingons looked different too.
The different makeup artists went with their own distinct variations on the designs. The productions that Michael Westmore was involved with -- TNG, DS9, VGR, ENT, and the TNG movies -- used his particular designs for Klingons and Romulans. The fourth through sixth movies had prosthetic makeup designed by Richard Snell, who used his own distinct variations on the Klingon and Romulan designs. It's like how different comic-book artists bring their own interpretations to the design of the characters or their costumes.

I think only the make up in STIII evoke the TNG style.
Well, it's the other way around, of course, since ST III came first. Fred Phillips's Klingon redesign in TMP gave all the Klingons the same type of ridge, a single vertebral ridge extending to the bridge of the nose. The prosthetic designers for ST III, The Burman Studio, created the approach of giving each Klingon an individualized bony plate. Westmore based his Klingon design largely on the Burman design, while taking the ridged nose from the Phillips TMP design. Meanwhile, in the later movies, Snell went for a Klingon design with subtler, rounder skull plates.


jimbotron wrote: View Post
Not to mention Star Trek VI established that the Klingon homeworld would be uninhabitable within 50 years, and that was a year and a half after TNG's Sins of the Father.
Rather, it established that the Klingon homeworld would be uninhabitable in 50 years if the Klingons didn't get help from the Federation. As Spock said, "Due to their enormous military budget, the Klingon economy does not have the resources to combat this catastrophe." That's the whole reason they were open to working with the Federation -- because the UFP did have the resources to combat the catastrophe. Since the alliance succeeded, it follows that the UFP was able to help mitigate the ecological disaster.


I guess the one thing I didn't like from TOS to TNG was making the Enterprise a family ship. Though Roddenberry says Starfleet isn't the military, Starfleet has always been structured like a military, from the ranking system and chain of command, to having an academy, and having enlisted men vs. officers. So continuing with the "non-military military" Starfleet in the 24th century aboard a supposed Kumbaya starship that has dozens of phaser banks and hundreds of photon torpedoes, I call bullshit on the idea that it would have a preschool.
Frontier towns in the Old West had heavily armed fortifications, but they also had families and schools. The arms were to protect the civilians against the dangers of the frontier. I don't understand why this is so unbelievable. Unless it's because we're so far removed from frontier existence that we've forgotten how many generations of our ancestors chose to take their families into dangerous environments, trusting in their weapons to protect their families.

The thing is, the Enterprise-D's crew wasn't supposed to be all Starfleet. It was a mix of Starfleet officers and civilian scientists, the former being there to protect the latter as they did their work exploring the galaxy.

But this was mostly forgotten in later seasons. The problems with TNG's concept aren't with the concept itself, but with the way the show largely abandoned it and failed to explain why it was conceived that way in the first place. The E-D was meant to be a deep-space explorer spending 15 years or more away from a friendly port. A ship like that would need to be an independent community with families, essentially a colony in its own right, since you'd get few people willing to give up their lives and families for 15 or 20 years. But after the pilot, the show promptly abandoned the deep-frontier idea and had the ship on milk runs to help Federation colonies and ships. So there was a mismatch between what the ship was set up to be and what it actually ended up doing.



Lance wrote: View Post
It always struck me, and this predates the TNG movies, that a lot of what TNG changed in the early seasons, they actually spent a lot of time trying to unravel later on, and return to a more TOS-like keel. For example, early TNG established a universe that was pretty much without conflict, where even the great galactic powers of the past (the Klingons in particular) are no longer enemies. But later on, with the re-introduction of Romulans and the introduction of Cardassians and Borg, there seemed to be this concerted effort to re-militarize the format, as if somebody up there had realized that Star Trek needed that in order to actually "be" Star Trek.
Roddenberry did indeed want to distance TNG from TOS. There was a lot about TOS that he'd come to regret and renounce, particularly the parts that he wasn't personally responsible for. By the time TNG came along, he was very caught up in the idea of making ST entirely his own, and he wanted to leave most of the old stuff behind. But once Roddenberry was gone and Trek fans like Ron Moore began rising through the producers' ranks, they started moving TNG back toward its TOS roots. Roddenberry saw TNG as essentially a soft reboot to the continuity, ignoring or renouncing a lot of ideas from TOS; it was his successors who chose to make it a more direct continuation.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 05:18 PM   #10
Joel_Kirk
Commodore
 
Joel_Kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' on Ligon II...
Re: TNG changes to TOS

Mojochi wrote: View Post
The abandonment of some of the more memorable TOS alien races, Andorians, Orions, Gorn, etc...
allstar77 wrote: View Post
Was there anything TNG changed about the original that you disliked? For example, I hated the ridges added to the Romulans.
These.

I want to add: The unisex hairstyles for the Vulcans and Romulans, and even a uniformed look (and even a soul-less physical depiction) of the Vulcans and Romulans.
Joel_Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 05:59 PM   #11
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: TNG changes to TOS

Christopher wrote: View Post
Frontier towns in the Old West had heavily armed fortifications, but they also had families and schools. The arms were to protect the civilians against the dangers of the frontier. I don't understand why this is so unbelievable.
Probably becuase your examples are covered by other stuff in Star Trek.

Colonies and Starbases already cover the frontier towns and forts examples.

Also wagon trains would be covered by colony ships and groups of colony ships likely with armed escorts.

So really its just the examples to explain the Enterprise-D having families are already covered and are considerably different.
Hartzilla2007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 06:34 PM   #12
Brown-Eyed Ghoul
Vice Admiral
 
Brown-Eyed Ghoul's Avatar
 
Location: scotpens
Re: TNG changes to TOS

allstar77 wrote: View Post
Was there anything TNG changed about the original that you disliked?
Pretty much everything, actually.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
Brown-Eyed Ghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 06:53 PM   #13
Joel_Kirk
Commodore
 
Joel_Kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' on Ligon II...
Re: TNG changes to TOS

scotpens wrote: View Post
allstar77 wrote: View Post
Was there anything TNG changed about the original that you disliked?
Pretty much everything, actually.
lol
Joel_Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 07:25 PM   #14
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: TNG changes to TOS

We actually did see the Andorians maybe once or twice in TNG.

But frankly, the biggest change was that in TOS the Federation was really a Human Polity that just inducted alien species into it as Weak Partners instead of conquering them and Starfleet was just your usual run of the mill space military. In TNG it was made more clear the Federation was an equal alliance of species and not everything was cut-and-past out of the 20th Century.

Unfortunately, they underestimated how much people loved the 20th Century and how much they DIDN'T want anything to be different.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2014, 07:45 PM   #15
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: TNG changes to TOS

The family ships thing only made a little sense if the Enterprise was a lone ship on a deep space exploration mission. It was originally imagined as a full self sufficient community on the frontiers of civilization. Just they kind of threw that out early when they started focusing more on conflicts with local races.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.