RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,356
Posts: 5,503,100
Members: 25,122
Currently online: 494
Newest member: almehtabshaikh

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Yesterday, 09:30 PM   #1
at Quark's
Lieutenant
 
The pegasus vs. the next phase

Two days ago, I re-watched "the next phase".

I think that although the Romulan experiment ended in disaster, it could also be said that it did succeed, as three persons were phase-shifted. Moreover, the Romulans could perhaps find that out rather easily, given that one crewmate of theirs has vanished without a trace. Quite possibly, only some fine-tuning would be needed to eliminate the nasty side effects.

Combining this episode with "the pegasus" it would mean that both the Romulans and the Federation have some form of phase shifting cloak, but the Federation shouldn't have it, and the Romulans simply don't know yet they have it.


So, I was wondering...

1. would the two technologies actually be similar in both principle and capabilities, giving neither side the actual advantage in that respect if both sides were to employ their technology? Or would there be significant differences ?

2. Given that it might be only a matter of time before the Romulans discover they were actually successful and they might not trust the Federation to really abandon their phase cloak (it is an insanely useful invention after all), would the mutual knowledge of posession lead to a new stalemate between the Romulan Empire and the Federation ?

3. Slightly related to that, it has been said in "the pegasus" that the Treaty of Algeron kept the peace for over 60 years. But, giving up cloaking technology is a huge disadvantage for the federation -and I'm inclinded to believe the Federation would not be so na´ve to only give it up for idealistic reasons-, so I'm curious what the Romulans gave up from their side? And how would that factor in in the new stalemate ?
at Quark's is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:48 PM   #2
Ithekro
Fleet Captain
 
Ithekro's Avatar
 
Location: Republic of California
Re: The pegasus vs. the next phase

I keep imagining a ship phase cloaking through an enemy ship, and then leaving an unphased photon torpedo in their engine room.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 12:56 AM   #3
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The pegasus vs. the next phase

Some ideas and opinions:

1. would the two technologies actually be similar in both principle and capabilities, giving neither side the actual advantage in that respect if both sides were to employ their technology? Or would there be significant differences?
Conventional cloaks come with enough variety that Klingons can sneak right down to the surface of the Romulan homeworld, and supposedly Romulans can return the courtesy; possession of the technology does not mean possession of effective countermeasures.

One would suppose the phase cloak would also defy categorical countermeasures; we already know that "phasing" comes in varieties, such as in "Time's Arrow" where things can be phased forward or backward in time by a desired degree, rendering them intangible just as in these two episodes. The competing players would have to live with the fact that the other side can remain invisible to them, plus with the new fact that they can sail through solid matter. But shields are good at categorically stopping beams from "phasers" and "phased matter streams" from transporters and so forth; relatively minor tweaking might allow them to block "phased" ships and torpedoes, too, regardless of the nuances of the phasing involved.

2. Given that it might be only a matter of time before the Romulans discover they were actually successful and they might not trust the Federation to really abandon their phase cloak (it is an insanely useful invention after all), would the mutual knowledge of posession lead to a new stalemate between the Romulan Empire and the Federation?
The stalemate seems to stem from some other aspect than the ability to sneak up to the enemy planets unseen and unhindered. Earlier, Romulans had the invisibility and Feds did not, yet there still was no hot war and no policy of arrogant blackmail by the Romulans that we'd know of. Supposedly, a conventional retaliation by the potentially much superior UFP Starfleet was enough to keep the Romulans from pressing their offensive advantage. This probably would not change with phase-cloaking.

3. Slightly related to that, it has been said in "the pegasus" that the Treaty of Algeron kept the peace for over 60 years. But, giving up cloaking technology is a huge disadvantage for the federation -and I'm inclinded to believe the Federation would not be so na´ve to only give it up for idealistic reasons-, so I'm curious what the Romulans gave up from their side? And how would that factor in in the new stalemate ?
It might be the Romulans just said "Do that for us, willya, and we won't bombard Earth back to stone age even though we can, with impunity", and Earth decided that these madmen were better placated with an insincere promise to do as they tell than with a counterthreat of annihilating their sorry little star empirelet.

I don't see any specific weapons technology advantage being worth this wrangling, nor any territorial holding. Such concerns are short-lived compared with the general call for stability and semi-civilized interaction.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:23 AM   #4
Mojochi
Commodore
 
Mojochi's Avatar
 
Re: The pegasus vs. the next phase

I still feel like the treaty of Algeron was set as a political strategy. "It has always been Starfleet's policy to never start a war". By openly engaging in a techno-arms race, you are declaring your status as an enemy. To refuse to do so is a political play. How right or wrong it was is debatable, but that was the intention & it worked for 60 years

If you say "I won't be dragged into a singular animosity with you" then you have the political advantage to claim victimization if ever they get caught trying to move on you, & at that point you can pull in aid from all over. Klingons, Vulcans, etc... Everybody comes to your aid, which is not something the Romulans want

But if you say "You've got a technology that can hurt us. So I want that technology too" even though it's only use is to hurt you, you are making a statement that you are enemies. Then if they strike on you, you got nobody backing you up, because you were playing the game. The better play is to develop preventative tech. No one would begrudge you the right to be developing detection tech. However, if "Starfleet is an organization of peace" well, hell, it's hard to be that guy, if you are developing first strike weaponry. You've given up the one thing that kept people from thinking you were a menace to be dealt with
Mojochi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:31 AM   #5
JirinPanthosa
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The pegasus vs. the next phase

Clearly unrelated technology. The Pegasus phase shifting let you fall through the floor.

My guess is that section 31 had a hand in squashing the Romulan phase cloak.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:41 AM   #6
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The pegasus vs. the next phase

The Pegasus phase shifting let you fall through the floor.
Umm, no. We never saw anybody fall through floors in the episode, or heard of that happening. (That grisly fate befell an extra in "In Theory", where the culprit was a natural phenomenon. That, or an alien phase-cloak gone awry.)

Why would the Romulans think their phase cloak did not work? They already had a test article being operated in outer space - surely there would be dozens of examples in labs, plenty of theoretical confirmation, a production line in readiness?

Or are we to think that the Romulans thought their tech was so dangerous it would have to be tested in empty space first before anything else was attempted? As opposed to finally applying a tested technology to its intended purpose, that of cloaking starships?

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.