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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old August 17 2009, 04:40 PM   #31
Chrisisall
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Lindley wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
If most doctors have so little understanding of the field they're in
I was with you up to here. Where do you get that premise from?
I've dated doctors, I've known doctors, and occasionally, I visit doctors. They are people. And as such, about one third are on the ball, one third get along doing minimal work, and one third are borderline incompetent, just like in most other professions.
So, when cutting edge info (like this latest vaccine, its projected readiness or efficacy) is being sussed out, it's really only a small percentage of folk that really know what they're talking about- the rest who bother to know anything at all are parroting, you gotta hope they're parroting it well is all.

When asked a question of a nutritional nature 8 out of 10 are clueless. How the HELL can you be a doctor and have no extensive knowledge of NUTRITION- the BASIS of good health?

Oh, a link-
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories
The vaccine is being touted as our best weapon against the virus, and hailed as a sort of "magic bullet." But Schafer notes that the first scientific data will only provide information on the correct dosage and immediate reactions from the shot. Long-term safety data won't be available when vaccination programs begin in the fall.
"So the claim that we know it to be safe and effective just isn't levelling with the Canadian public. No one knows that," says Schafer.
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Old August 17 2009, 05:39 PM   #32
Lindley
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

I just see that as common sense. Of course there's no "long term" data available so soon after the strain first became known. How could there be?

There's always a balance between exhaustive testing and promptness of delivery. In every field, not just medicine.
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Old August 17 2009, 05:48 PM   #33
Chrisisall
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Lindley wrote: View Post
I just see that as common sense.
Know what I see as common sense?

Doctor comes up to me, says he wants to inject me & mine with:
Cow pus, monkey cells, live viruses, pig tissue, mercury, etc.
I punch him twice in rapid succession. "Take two of these & call me in the morning," I say.
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Old August 17 2009, 06:04 PM   #34
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Bob The Skutter wrote: View Post
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Hey Tachy, did you know there are billions of toxic bacteria all over your skin? If they ever make their way inside a wound you'll probably die. Go bathe in a vat of antibacterial soap, just to be safe.

Oh, wait. You need those to live. Crap!

Like I said, what you post here isn't science. Not in any way, shape, or form. It's fear, paranoia, and misinformation.
Hey don't I know it. I'm currently infected by Staphylococcus aureus. In the middle of a course of antibiotics for a heart infection, and the closest thing I can think of for a source of infection is a nasty scratch from my cat.
Don't forget your intestinal flora, which you need in order to digest food, but would make you incredibly sick if you ever actually ingested it. E. coli lives in your intestines!
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Old August 17 2009, 06:12 PM   #35
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

My experience as a parent taught me that one shouldn't even uncritically accept the recommended childhood immunization schedule. I had one who showed a frightening sensitivity to one vaccine, and as a result we took a different approach with the others. They got all their vaccinations eventually, but not on the schedule or dosages that doctors used to insist were mandated by God.

The last flu vaccination I had was for the strain of swine flu that Jerry Ford was insisting we be shot up for. I've had the flu twice in my adult life - three or four days of discomfort, and then on with the business of living. Meh.
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Old August 17 2009, 06:12 PM   #36
Chrisisall
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
E. coli lives in your intestines!
Which is why, I conjure, gut shot = bad.
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Old August 17 2009, 06:18 PM   #37
Chrisisall
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Dennis wrote: View Post
They got all their vaccinations eventually, but not on the schedule or dosages that doctors used to insist were mandated by God.
Same here as well.

The last flu vaccination I had was for the strain of swine flu that Jerry Ford was insisting we be shot up for.
Again, same here. I've had pneumonia twice since then, *cough cough* *hot*... big deal. Why are peeps so scared of getting sick for a few days?
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Old August 17 2009, 07:49 PM   #38
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
They got all their vaccinations eventually, but not on the schedule or dosages that doctors used to insist were mandated by God.
Same here as well.

The last flu vaccination I had was for the strain of swine flu that Jerry Ford was insisting we be shot up for.
Again, same here. I've had pneumonia twice since then, *cough cough* *hot*... big deal. Why are peeps so scared of getting sick for a few days?
Most of us aren't in a high-risk group and it's generally not advised that you get a flu shot unless you are.

Children, the sick, and the elderly are most at-risk from influenza. The rest of us can get by without the vaccine, for the most part. That's why they ration it when they don't have enough produced.
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Old August 17 2009, 09:24 PM   #39
farmkid
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
They got all their vaccinations eventually, but not on the schedule or dosages that doctors used to insist were mandated by God.
Same here as well.

The last flu vaccination I had was for the strain of swine flu that Jerry Ford was insisting we be shot up for.
Again, same here. I've had pneumonia twice since then, *cough cough* *hot*... big deal. Why are peeps so scared of getting sick for a few days?
Most of us aren't in a high-risk group and it's generally not advised that you get a flu shot unless you are.

Children, the sick, and the elderly are most at-risk from influenza. The rest of us can get by without the vaccine, for the most part. That's why they ration it when they don't have enough produced.
In this case, the high-risk group is pregnant women, children over 6, and young adults. This flu is of the same type as the Spanish flu of 1918 that targeted the young, rather than the elderly or otherwise immuno-compromised. Most of the deaths so far have been people under 30 and the most severe cases have been in young adults. So, there are actually probably many here who are in the high-risk group.
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Old August 18 2009, 01:33 AM   #40
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

farmkid wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Same here as well.Again, same here. I've had pneumonia twice since then, *cough cough* *hot*... big deal. Why are peeps so scared of getting sick for a few days?
Most of us aren't in a high-risk group and it's generally not advised that you get a flu shot unless you are.

Children, the sick, and the elderly are most at-risk from influenza. The rest of us can get by without the vaccine, for the most part. That's why they ration it when they don't have enough produced.
In this case, the high-risk group is pregnant women, children over 6, and young adults. This flu is of the same type as the Spanish flu of 1918 that targeted the young, rather than the elderly or otherwise immuno-compromised. Most of the deaths so far have been people under 30 and the most severe cases have been in young adults. So, there are actually probably many here who are in the high-risk group.
Well, there you go. I was speaking mostly of the "regular" flu. I didn't know this swine flu had the characteristics of the 1918 pandemic. Does it cause an immune overreaction? I recall that's what made the 1918 flu so deadly in the healthiest demographics--those with strong immune systems saw it backfire and kill them, due to how the virus worked.
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Old August 18 2009, 01:35 AM   #41
Lindley
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Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
I just see that as common sense.
Know what I see as common sense?

Doctor comes up to me, says he wants to inject me & mine with:
Cow pus, monkey cells, live viruses, pig tissue, mercury, etc.
I punch him twice in rapid succession. "Take two of these & call me in the morning," I say.
And *that* is why we trust the doctors to know better than we do how to safeguard our health. Because the gut reaction of a layperson to deep science is often wrong.

Just be glad your health doesn't depend on a belief in the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal.
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Old August 18 2009, 04:13 AM   #42
Chrisisall
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Well, there you go. I was speaking mostly of the "regular" flu. I didn't know this swine flu had the characteristics of the 1918 pandemic.
And no one else does either. just pay your money for the shot.
Lindley wrote: View Post
And *that* is why we trust the doctors to know better than we do how to safeguard our health. Because the gut reaction of a layperson to deep science is often wrong.
My "gut" reaction back in the day was that phoney fats were bad, science has caught up to me.
Digest that, and forget vitamins- it's a confidence trick by evil peeps bent on selling suppliments in the face of excellent designer veggies.
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Old August 18 2009, 03:42 PM   #43
farmkid
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Well, there you go. I was speaking mostly of the "regular" flu. I didn't know this swine flu had the characteristics of the 1918 pandemic. Does it cause an immune overreaction? I recall that's what made the 1918 flu so deadly in the healthiest demographics--those with strong immune systems saw it backfire and kill them, due to how the virus worked.
I'm not sure about the why, but your explanation makes sense. What I do know is that both the 1918 Spanish flu and the current swine flu are of the less common H1N1 type, and that so far the most severely affected have been young adults. It very well could be an immune overreaction. I've been paying attention to this aspect of it because I have 5 children, 4 of which are 6 or older, and my wife may be pregnant. That makes 5 out of the 7 in my household in the high-risk category.
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Old August 18 2009, 04:27 PM   #44
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Problems with the "Swine flu vaccine"

farmkid wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Well, there you go. I was speaking mostly of the "regular" flu. I didn't know this swine flu had the characteristics of the 1918 pandemic. Does it cause an immune overreaction? I recall that's what made the 1918 flu so deadly in the healthiest demographics--those with strong immune systems saw it backfire and kill them, due to how the virus worked.
I'm not sure about the why, but your explanation makes sense. What I do know is that both the 1918 Spanish flu and the current swine flu are of the less common H1N1 type, and that so far the most severely affected have been young adults. It very well could be an immune overreaction. I've been paying attention to this aspect of it because I have 5 children, 4 of which are 6 or older, and my wife may be pregnant. That makes 5 out of the 7 in my household in the high-risk category.
The current conclusion about the 1918 pandemic is that it killed the young and healthy by inducing a cytokine storm. According to that article, the 1918 flu, SARS, and H5N1 bird flu caused cytokine storms. Apparently, the jury is still out on whether or not the current swine flu operates in this manner--not enough information for the CDC to make a judgment one way or the other, yet.
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