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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: what TV channel do you think would be most realistic in 2010-2013?
Showtime - subscription TV channel (owned by CBS Corporation) 15 28.85%
Spike [formerly Spike TV] cable/satellite TV channel (a division of MTV Networks, owned by Viacom) 0 0%
SyFy - cable TV channel- (part of the entertainment conglomerate NBC Universal) 16 30.77%
CBS broadcast network (owned by CBS Corporation) 14 26.92%
The CW broadcast network (owned by CBS Corporation) 7 13.46%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 11 2010, 12:29 AM   #136
jefferiestubes8
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Location: New York City
Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Starz just greenlighted a US version of Torchwood. Maybe that's the right place for Star Trek.
Hmm. Wikipedia mentions
As of December 2008, Starz's programming is available to 17.7 million subscribers in the United States.
Unlike HBO and Showtime, the Starz channels neither have international premium channels nor have international cable channels using the Starz or Encore brands.
This would allow CBS Television distribution to sell them to anyone outside of the USA territory.
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Old June 11 2010, 01:56 AM   #137
AviTrek
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Starz just greenlighted a US version of Torchwood. Maybe that's the right place for Star Trek. HBO and Showtime are probably too high-tone to pick up an existing sci fi franchise, but Starz is like their sleazy little sister and not so fussy.
Except CBS owns Showtime, so why would they sell Star Trek to a competitor?
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Old June 13 2010, 10:51 PM   #138
Temis the Vorta
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

They probably wouldn't, but if they're not doing anything with the Star Trek name, why not license it to someone who's interested in doing something with it, and make some money that way?
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Old June 14 2010, 02:59 AM   #139
peteym5
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

CBS and Paramount would want this show to reach the widest range of audience possible so it will either be on the CW or CBS. If it ends up on CBS, the network may put up money for experienced actors, maybe someone from a prior Star Trek show. Look at how ABC is doing V, most of the cast had come from prior Sci-Fi shows. You have to remember it is about ratings and it has to good. They have to stick with material that made Star Trek popular in the past like Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, characters with accents, red shirt deaths, etc. That along with being creative to do some new stuff. Cannot do anything stupid like put a few bad actors on the show, get stuck far away, and run into aliens with bad hair-dues. It would need some clever writing to make it into a good drama.
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Old June 14 2010, 04:59 AM   #140
jefferiestubes8
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

peteym5 wrote: View Post
CBS and Paramount would want this show to reach the widest range of audience possible so it will either be on the CW or CBS.
peteym5 welcome to TrekBBS.
You should really go back and read the posts in this thread. I know you are brand new to the forum but really AviTrek and Temis the Vorta
give very good reasons for why your thinking is flawed further up in this thread.

Just because Trek may seem mainstream and a Trek sci fi action feature film was released with PG-13 rating in 2009 doesn't mean a Trek series cannot be on basic cable or even the next tier up in cable television.
Trek is not just that mainstream in the first place as Nielsen ratings have shown since Voyager.
Properly promoted cable TV would be fine for the USA territory.
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Old June 18 2010, 03:53 AM   #141
Temis the Vorta
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

CBS and Paramount would want this show to reach the widest range of audience possible
Not necessarily. A large potential audience means large ratings expectations that Star Trek cannot meet. A niche strategy might be the smarter move.

so it will either be on the CW or CBS.
Those networks have specific demographic strategies that are poor matches for Star Trek.

CW = girls and women, 18-30 or thereabouts.

CBS = casting a wide net for Middle America by creating lowest-common-denomentator programming.

Star Trek appeals disporpotionately to males, and it doesn't appeal to Middle America. Of all the networks, the best demographic match is FOX. But all the networks are too broad appeal/non-nichey for Star Trek so cable is a better bet.

Look at how ABC is doing V
You obviously haven't checked the ratings if you're using that show as a successful example of a sci fi show. ABC renewed it to save face because its entire 2009-10 lineup would have been a bust otherwise and it didn't suck quite as badly as the rest of the options.
You have to remember it is about ratings and it has to good.
It's not about ratings. It's about expectations of ratings. Viewership levels that constitute an abject failure on CBS are a stunning success on cable. Context is everything.

But yeah, it does have to be good. One heartening trend lately is how intolerant audiences are of flawed shows like V, FlashForward and Heroes. When shows start to suck, or suck from the start, they are rewarded with cancellation. Good for us. We should have to put up with shit.

Last edited by Temis the Vorta; June 18 2010 at 04:03 AM.
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Old June 18 2010, 10:44 PM   #142
jefferiestubes8
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
If cable is a possibility what about a deal with a specific satellite operator DirecTV?
Even if it is after Star Trek XII since CBS doesn't like sci fi genre shows (including Trek) in general what about DirectTV's The 101 network available only to DirecTV subscribers in the United States.
NBC made a deal DirectTV with Friday Night Lights to air on The 101 Network & months later on NBC.
Couldn't CBS Television make some kind of deal like this? with The 101 Network airing first and CW airing them later?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
A large potential audience means large ratings expectations that Star Trek cannot meet. A niche strategy might be the smarter move.

Would CBS Television feel that it would be losing too much money only on satellite with a certain number of subscribers rather than commit to 13 episodes to air on a network with more potential ratings?

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
Is Star Trek that mainstream that is beyond being able to have its flagship TV series 1st run on a cable TV channel and it has to be broadcast TV?

Last edited by jefferiestubes8; June 18 2010 at 10:58 PM.
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Old June 24 2010, 01:08 PM   #143
jefferiestubes8
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TV business model Trek series 6

from another thread that I thought would be appropriate to address here:
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Sci fi has never appealled particularly well to the female demographic, yet shows with spaceships and aliens used to survive just fine with mostly male audiences.
Regarging science fiction (not Trek solely)
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
you have a tiny audience and a business model based on advertising, which is only really suited to the mass audience that TV used to have. Appealing strongly to a niche audience instead of sort of appealing to a large audience, isn't something anyone's figured out how to monetize well.
I thought one of the channels under Viacom did monetize it [the Male demographic] and made it a selection in this thread's poll:
Spike [formerly Spike TV] cable/satellite TV channel (a division of MTV Networks, owned by Viacom)
Although no one voted for it. Temis the Vorta you yourself said:
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Spike - Cmon, Trek is better than that.
We know Trek has a large fan base and there is interest for content. Does CBS Television make it niche or do they go or wide appeal and bland it down to broadcast television standards in a world where that model isn't going to get very good ratings.
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
How do you translate interest into dollars? DVD sales won't take up the slack
Well TPTB & CBS Television know that home video sales of Trek series are very profitable.
So instead of having a linear network have Trek series 6 as a video-on-demand-ONLY subscription-type offering of the show itself instead of a premium subscription channel such as Showtime or Epix HD? I suggested this on another poll in Future of Trek
Poll: provider for new Trek series as original series download


AviTrek wrote: View Post
Unless you go the premium route which can survive with a higher budget and fewer viewers but results in a very different show from what previous Trek has been.
It isn't such a bad thing but I guess it is how would the Trek franchise be perceived if it moved to cable, premium cable, or a subscription video-on-demand only mode?
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Old June 26 2010, 08:01 PM   #144
Temis the Vorta
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

Does CBS Television make it niche or do they go or wide appeal and bland it down to broadcast television standards in a world where that model isn't going to get very good ratings.
If they bland it down, it will cease to be Star Trek and will not appeal to anyone, so that strategy is a non-starter.

I'm increasingly thinking that for CBS to bother with Star Trek, it must be on one of the outlets they own: CBS, CW, Showtime. Why go to a lot of trouble to provide content for some other company? CBS and CW are extremely wrong for Star Trek, so who knows, maybe Showtime is the answer after all?

Then the question becomes: does Showtime think Star Trek is right for it? They're trying to be HBO Junior (with the aim of parity with HBO in perception of quality content). Star Trek is associated with free TV; why should you pay a premium price to get Star Trek? Shouldn't Showtime be doing more prestigious stuff, or at least stuff where people wear fancy historical costumes?
So instead of having a linear network have Trek series 6 as a video-on-demand-ONLY subscription-type offering of the show itself instead of a premium subscription channel such as Showtime or Epix HD? I suggested this on another poll in Future of Trek
Poll: provider for new Trek series as original series download
The TV biz is a long, long way from being able to fund an expensive series like Star Trek on the puny revenues you can get from downloads, and it would be madness to undermine a premium brand name by doing it on the cheap in order to make puny revenues (which nobody in the professional TV biz will do, simply because its a waste of their time when they could be chasing the big bucks instead making another CSI spinoff). Better to leave that stuff to borderline web productions that are "inspired" by Star Trek but don't have the rights to use the name (if they're making any money at all).
It isn't such a bad thing but I guess it is how would the Trek franchise be perceived if it moved to cable, premium cable, or a subscription video-on-demand only mode?
Star Trek's image would improve. The question is the reverse: would Showtime's image improve? Or would its subscribers wonder why they are paying for a franchise that used to be on free TV?
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Old June 28 2010, 08:12 PM   #145
jefferiestubes8
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
for CBS to bother with Star Trek, it must be on one of the outlets they own: CBS, CW, Showtime. Why go to a lot of trouble to provide content for some other company? CBS and CW are extremely wrong for Star Trek, so who knows, maybe Showtime is the answer after all?
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Then the question becomes: does Showtime think Star Trek is right for it? They're trying to be HBO Junior (with the aim of parity with HBO in perception of quality content). Star Trek is associated with free TV; why should you pay a premium price to get Star Trek?
Here is a 7-year old estimate:
ACNielsen estimated in 2003 that CBS can be seen in 96.98% of all American households, reaching 103,421,270 homes in the United States.
As ngc7293 pointed out I don't need to have Star Trek on one of the largest TV networks to get it. Hell I'd rather have it without commercials too. Are fans willing to pay for that too?

caisson2delta made the point:
caisson2delta wrote: View Post
there might be a lot of current or future fans who might not want to pay extra to watch. I seem to remember Stargate SG1 starting out there and did so so. it didn't prosper until it got to Sci Fi. [SyFy]
although
jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
Look what Sirius satellite radio did with Howard Stern a few years ago. It is possible Star Trek could be on a premium cable channel and the fans who don't want to pay the monthly fee can just by the DVD/Blu-ray 6-10 months later.
jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
would Showtime think they would gain X number of subscribers with the next 13-episode Star Trek TV series season 1?
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The question is the reverse: would Showtime's image improve? Or would its subscribers wonder why they are paying for a franchise that used to be on free TV?
An older TV series may have been on TV and now TV models are different and AMC & HBO, FX, Showtime get the best TV series.
I think though CBS Studios (who own Star Trek on TV) would feel they were losing too much in advertising revenue.
But even if it were only distributed in the USA on Showtime all of the foreign markets are still available for distribution as well as the home video sales.
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Old July 2 2010, 01:43 AM   #146
peteym5
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

I do not think CBS will outright risk a Star Trek on the CBS network itself. That is unless they can put something really good together that 10million+ viewers will watch. You have to pull in some major actors, writers, and producers to put in together. Probably have to something like have Riker be the captain, along with a few other big actors on the show to be on CBS. The big networks will try to do things with Star Power and won't bother with a cast of unknowns.

If its a all new cast, it will most likely be on the CW network because it is a smaller network that already has a few running horror, fantasy shows, and similar type shows. The series will be first run on a broadcast network, I don't see doing it working on premium cable.

A new show would have to as good or better than Star Trek:The Next Generation 3rd & 4th season from the get go. It has to achieve high ratings in its first season. It cannot be like TNGs & DS9s 1st season, or most of Voyager & Enterprise. Its going to need a lot of good stories with establish characters.

I do not think anything is going to happen until after 2012 and that is if the next movie does well.

Last edited by peteym5; July 2 2010 at 02:04 AM.
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Old July 2 2010, 07:59 PM   #147
Ralphis
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

ngc7293 wrote: View Post

Spike: Free on cable. not even scifi mostly csi or ECW or the like
It's TNA Wrestling, not ECW.
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Old July 2 2010, 08:45 PM   #148
Ralphis
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

I made an honest effort to read all previous posts before I wrote mine, but there's a LOT of info here so I may have messed something. If I do repeat something, please forgive me.

As others have pointed out, CBS and CW are terrible places for Star Trek. But I thought I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where so I can't provide a source) that CBS Television Studios at some point in 2009 decided to only produce shows for CBS and The CW. If that's that case, then under that model there seems to be no place for a new Star Trek show. Would they make an exception for Star Trek? There are some good choices out there, but would CBS Television Studios be open to it? I don't know how that stuff works, that's why I ask.

Now, I realize that Viacom and CBS Corporation are now ran as two completely different companies, but they're still owned by the same parent company (National Amusements). With that in mind, would they be open to airing a new Star Trek show on Spike? I know a few posters have expressed their disdain for Spike already, but the channel may be the only place that is both the most logical place AND the most realistic place for a new Star Trek show-- especially if the new show kept the tone and the pace of the new movie. Spike and Star Trek have an extensive history together. Plus, Star Trek can still be found on Spike (albeit in the form of ST:Voy late night re-runs... but it's still there). And there's still some sci-fi on Spike-- How many times have they ran the Star Wars movies? There's another Star Wars marathon planned for this weekend.

So I think Spike is best logical place THAT'S ALSO the most realistic.
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Old July 4 2010, 03:08 PM   #149
zirron
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

Actually I think Star Trek should stay in theaters. I don't think it works as a TV show any longer. Too much schism in viewership plus you have competing mediums that draw the real demographic that advertisers want 18 - 35 are now inundated with so many other options that network TV is not viable. Creative series fizzle out after a season and are canceled now. I suspect Star Trek would be among that contingent to fizzle after a few episodes. There's just not enough streamline for an entire demographic to reconnect to a science fiction show.

The reason TNG worked is it existed before the Internet exploded and all subsequent series dwindled in viewership.

I like Star Trek, but I don't think it works on network TV and if you put it on Showtime... for pay-TV then you lose even more of that coveted demographic.
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Old July 4 2010, 08:49 PM   #150
Temis the Vorta
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Re: What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

Actually I think Star Trek should stay in theaters. I don't think it works as a TV show any longer. Too much schism in viewership
What schism in viewership? Trek died on TV because of the schism between the business models of network and cable TV, but there's no schism between TV and movie viewers of Star Trek.
plus you have competing mediums
TV and movies do not compete directly. Handled properly, Trek could have parallel TV and movie series that support each other.
that draw the real demographic that advertisers want 18 - 35 are now inundated with so many other options that network TV is not viable.
So put it on cable.

Creative series fizzle out after a season and are canceled now.
I guess you've never heard of Sons of Anarchy, Dexter, Big Love, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, True Blood, or Curb Your Enthusiasm - just for starters. And howsabout that Futurama! Can't stay cancelled. Those appeal to niche audiences and most (possibly all, I haven't checked) survive nicely on less viewership than ENT was cancelled for getting.
The reason TNG worked is it existed before the Internet exploded and all subsequent series dwindled in viewership.
Well yeah, so Star Trek doesn't belong on network TV. Put it on cable.

I like Star Trek, but I don't think it works on network TV and if you put it on Showtime... for pay-TV then you lose even more of that coveted demographic.
If you put it on Showtime, then the advertising demographic no longer matters because Showtime is subscription-based. If Star Trek can draw subscribers, it'll be golden. (The real problem is not whether Star Trek can survive on Showtime but whether Showtime would want Star Trek.)
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