Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" - Page 4

SilentP · August 5 2009, 08:11 PM

Tachyon Shield wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Another correct answer from Spot's Meow.

I feel.......................................... retarded.

One idea I would suggest is to write a list with all the combinations down (i.e blue smooth square etc.) and go through the rules to start eliminating those that aren't allowed in the final 4.

Spot's Meow · August 5 2009, 08:26 PM

Tachyon Shield wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Another correct answer from Spot's Meow.

I feel.......................................... retarded.

Don't, I am absolutely shocked that I got it right! I actually tried the puzzle for like half an hour yesterday and got nowhere. I came back to it today with a fresh mind and was able to do it in just a few minutes! I can't believe I got it.

All Seeing Eye · August 5 2009, 09:14 PM

SilentP wrote:

Tachyon Shield wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Another correct answer from Spot's Meow.

I feel.......................................... retarded.

One idea I would suggest is to write a list with all the combinations down (i.e blue smooth square etc.) and go through the rules to start eliminating those that aren't allowed in the final 4.

That's what I tried to do and that's when I ended up finding the contradiction and then the whole attempt just collapsed.

Jadzia · August 6 2009, 09:10 PM

It doesn't look like any more guesses are coming. So here is the answer to this week's puzzle...

I have: a furry yellow circle, a smooth green square, a smooth red circle, and a furry red circle.

I believe the most effective method of solution here is as SilentP suggested, to write down the 27 possible objects and eliminate them in batches by seeing which objects are forbidden by each rule in turn. You end up with a few possibilities remaining. To select from these, you can apply the "all colours" rule to determine the two yellow and green shapes, and then the "circles>smooth" rule to determine the two red shapes. Also notice in the opening sentence that all four of my objects must be different

Thank-you to all who took part.

We look forward to your joining in next week's puzzle, which I won't be hosting.

Zion Ravescene · August 6 2009, 09:12 PM

And thanks to Jadzia for kindly taking the reins and devising this week's logic puzzle.

Laren · August 6 2009, 09:26 PM

Looking forward to next week!

I made a sort of coordinate system to eliminate the impossible ones. So, were the answers listed randomly or did everyone guess the green one first?

Zion Ravescene · August 6 2009, 09:29 PM

Laren wrote:

Looking forward to next week!

No you're not.

I made a sort of coordinate system to eliminate the impossible ones. So, were the answers listed randomly or did everyone guess the green one first?

I think it's both.

Laren · August 6 2009, 09:33 PM

Zion Ravescene wrote:

Laren wrote:

Looking forward to next week!

No you're not.

Intriguing!

tehfunz0rz · August 6 2009, 09:36 PM

In all honesty, I usually consider myself pretty good at these sorts of puzzles, but tried yesterday for a few minutes and gave up after I got light-headed.

Spot's Meow · August 7 2009, 08:17 PM

I started with the contradiction, knowing that there were no rough shapes. Then I listed each of the three colors and figured out what shapes they had to be based on the rules. A couple of them had to be smooth based on this info, so at least 3 of the objects had to be circles. For the last shape that could have been any color there were two possibilities, and since the question stated all the objects were different there was really only one choice.

I actually tried writing it out methodically on the first day, but as I mentioned before that got me nowhere. So after that I just tried doing it in my head and it seemed to work better for some reason.

trampledamage · August 7 2009, 08:29 PM

I know he doesn't pop back and chat, but it would be interesting to know Jim Gamma's method since he solved it so quickly

Jadzia · August 7 2009, 09:01 PM

The more natural way of solving the puzzle is to take one property, like triangles, and see what you can deduce about triangle objects. You will get some specific facts: "triangles will always be smooth."

In fact, there are 5 relatively simple deductions you can make:

triangles -- must be smooth and red
squares -- must be smooth
green -- must be square and smooth
yellow -- must be circle and furry
rough -- cannot exist

Once you get to that stage, it is not hard to solve.

Zion Ravescene · August 7 2009, 09:28 PM

When I was testing your puzzle last week, I ended up using the SilentP method of determining all possibilites in a table (a.k.a. the Guess Who? method), then going through each rule one by one, eliminating the impossible, thus interpreting whatever remains, however improbable, as the truth.

trampledamage · August 7 2009, 09:55 PM

Zion Ravescene wrote:

When I was testing your puzzle last week, I ended up using the SilentP method of determining all possibilites in a table (a.k.a. the Guess Who? method), then going through each rule one by one, eliminating the impossible, thus interpreting whatever remains, however improbable, as the truth.

Insane Romulans from the future? Didn't think of that!

Zion Ravescene · August 7 2009, 10:14 PM

trampledamage wrote:

Zion Ravescene wrote:

When I was testing your puzzle last week, I ended up using the SilentP method of determining all possibilites in a table (a.k.a. the Guess Who? method), then going through each rule one by one, eliminating the impossible, thus interpreting whatever remains, however improbable, as the truth.

Insane Romulans from the future? Didn't think of that!

"Dammit, man, I'm a doctor, not a physicist!"

August 6 2009, 09:10 PM	#49
Jadzia on holiday Location: England	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" It doesn't look like any more guesses are coming. So here is the answer to this week's puzzle... I have: a furry yellow circle, a smooth green square, a smooth red circle, and a furry red circle. I believe the most effective method of solution here is as SilentP suggested, to write down the 27 possible objects and eliminate them in batches by seeing which objects are forbidden by each rule in turn. You end up with a few possibilities remaining. To select from these, you can apply the "all colours" rule to determine the two yellow and green shapes, and then the "circles>smooth" rule to determine the two red shapes. Also notice in the opening sentence that all four of my objects must be different Thank-you to all who took part. We look forward to your joining in next week's puzzle, which I won't be hosting. __________________ .

August 6 2009, 09:12 PM	#50
Zion Ravescene Admirable	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" And thanks to Jadzia for kindly taking the reins and devising this week's logic puzzle. __________________ "Well, I would like to make another trip," he said, jumping to his feet; "but I really don't know when I'll have the time. There's just so much to do right here."

August 6 2009, 09:26 PM	#51
Laren Rear Admiral Location: Germany	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" Looking forward to next week! I made a sort of coordinate system to eliminate the impossible ones. So, were the answers listed randomly or did everyone guess the green one first?

August 6 2009, 09:36 PM	#54
tehfunz0rz Lieutenant Commander	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" In all honesty, I usually consider myself pretty good at these sorts of puzzles, but tried yesterday for a few minutes and gave up after I got light-headed.

August 7 2009, 08:17 PM	#55
Spot's Meow Vice Admiral Location: California	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" I started with the contradiction, knowing that there were no rough shapes. Then I listed each of the three colors and figured out what shapes they had to be based on the rules. A couple of them had to be smooth based on this info, so at least 3 of the objects had to be circles. For the last shape that could have been any color there were two possibilities, and since the question stated all the objects were different there was really only one choice. I actually tried writing it out methodically on the first day, but as I mentioned before that got me nowhere. So after that I just tried doing it in my head and it seemed to work better for some reason. __________________ Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future. And time future contained in time past. —T.S. Eliot

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August 7 2009, 08:29 PM	#56
trampledamage Clone Location: trampledamage is doing her homework	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" I know he doesn't pop back and chat, but it would be interesting to know Jim Gamma's method since he solved it so quickly __________________ Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence - Dr. McCoy And he says that like it's a bad thing...

August 7 2009, 09:01 PM	#57
Jadzia on holiday Location: England	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" The more natural way of solving the puzzle is to take one property, like triangles, and see what you can deduce about triangle objects. You will get some specific facts: "triangles will always be smooth." In fact, there are 5 relatively simple deductions you can make: triangles -- must be smooth and red squares -- must be smooth green -- must be square and smooth yellow -- must be circle and furry rough -- cannot exist Once you get to that stage, it is not hard to solve. __________________ .

August 7 2009, 09:28 PM	#58
Zion Ravescene Admirable	Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" When I was testing your puzzle last week, I ended up using the SilentP method of determining all possibilites in a table (a.k.a. the Guess Who? method), then going through each rule one by one, eliminating the impossible, thus interpreting whatever remains, however improbable, as the truth. __________________ "Well, I would like to make another trip," he said, jumping to his feet; "but I really don't know when I'll have the time. There's just so much to do right here."