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View Poll Results: Sexiest Trek characters?
Nyota Uhura (Nichelle Nichols) TOS 25 8.09%
Nyota Uhura (Zoe Saldana) STXI 31 10.03%
Janice Rand (Grace Lee Whitney) TOS 16 5.18%
Christine Chapel (Majel Barrett) TOS 3 0.97%
Number One (Majel Barrett) TOS 4 1.29%
Romulan Commander (Joanne Linville) TOS "The Enterprise Incident" 15 4.85%
Dr Helen Noel (Marianna Hill) TOS "Dagger of the Mind" 28 9.06%
Zarabeth (Mariette Hartley) TOS "All Our Yesterdays" 9 2.91%
T'Pring (Arlene Martel) TOS "Amok Time" 4 1.29%
Vina (Susan Oliver) TOS "The Cage" 11 3.56%
Reyna Kapec (Louise Sorel) TOS "Requiem for Methuselah" 3 0.97%
Edith Keeler (Joan Collins) TOS "The City on the Edge of Forever" 6 1.94%
Marta (Yvonne Craig) TOS "Whom Gods Destroy" 6 1.94%
Leila Kalomi (Jill Ireland) TOS "This Side of Paradise" 2 0.65%
Nona (Nancy Kovack) TOS "A Private Little War" 5 1.62%
Andrea (Sherry Jackson) TOS "What Are Little Girls Made Of" 24 7.77%
Marlena Moreau (Barbara Luna) TOS "Mirror Mirror" 14 4.53%
Ilia (Persis Khambatta) STI:TMP 12 3.88%
Saavik (Kirstey Alley) STII:TWOK 22 7.12%
Valeris (Kim Cattrall) STVI:TUC 4 1.29%
Deanna Troi (Marina Sirtis) TNG 31 10.03%
Dr Beverly Crusher (Gates McFadden) TNG 22 7.12%
Tasha Yar (Denise Crosby) TNG 13 4.21%
Ro Laren (Michelle Forbes) TNG 23 7.44%
K'Ehleyr (Suzie Plakson) TNG 12 3.88%
Selar (Suzie Plakson) TNG 10 3.24%
Vash (Jennifer Hatrick) TNG/DS9 13 4.21%
Robin Lefler (Ashley Judd) TNG 25 8.09%
Kamala (Famke Janssen) TNG "The Perfect Mate" 28 9.06%
Minuet (Carolyn McCormick) TNG 7 2.27%
Kira Nerys (Nana Visitor) DS9 47 15.21%
Jadzia Dax (Terry Farrell) DS9 59 19.09%
Ezri Dax (Nicole De Boer) DS9 54 17.48%
Leeta (Chase Masterson) DS9 34 11.00%
Tora Ziyal (Melanie Smith) DS9 5 1.62%
Sakonna (Bertila Damas) DS9 "The Maquis" 4 1.29%
Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan) VOY 63 20.39%
Kathryn Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) VOY 11 3.56%
Kes (Jennifer Lien) VOY 24 7.77%
B'Elanna Torres (Roxann Dawson) VOY 24 7.77%
T'Pol (Jolene Blalock) ENT 54 17.48%
Hoshi Sato (Linda Park) ENT 34 11.00%
Gaila (Rachel Nichols) STXI 14 4.53%
James T. Kirk (William Shatner) TOS 22 7.12%
James T. Kirk (Chris Pine) STXI 26 8.41%
Spock (Leonard Nimoy) TOS 39 12.62%
Spock (Zachary Quinto) STXI 40 12.94%
Dr Leonard McCoy (DeForest Kelley) TOS 6 1.94%
Dr Leonard McCoy (Karl Urban) STXI 23 7.44%
Montgomery 'Scotty' Scott (James Doohan) TOS 1 0.32%
Montgomery 'Scotty' Scott (Simon Pegg) STXI 2 0.65%
Hikaru Sulu (George Takei) TOS 4 1.29%
Hikaru Sulu (John Cho) STXI 4 1.29%
Pavel Chekov (Walter Koenig) TOS 4 1.29%
Pavel Chekov (Anton Yelchin) STXI 7 2.27%
Christopher Pike (Jeffrey Hunter) TOS 9 2.91%
Christopher Pike (Bruce Greenwood) STXI 10 3.24%
Sarek (Mark Lenard) TOS 11 3.56%
Romulan Commander (Mark Lenard) TOS 6 1.94%
Sarek (Ben Cross) STXI 3 0.97%
Khan (Ricardo Montalban) TOS/STII:TWOK 5 1.62%
Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart) TNG 20 6.47%
William Riker (Jonathan Frakes) TNG 13 4.21%
Data (Brent Spiner) TNG 6 1.94%
Worf (Michael Dorn) TNG 8 2.59%
Geordie La Forge (LeVar Burton) TNG 1 0.32%
Wesley Crusher (Will Wheaton) TNG 4 1.29%
Q (John De Lancie) TNG/DS9/VOY 4 1.29%
Benjamin Sisko (Avery Brooks) DS9 8 2.59%
Dr Julian Bashir (Alexander Siddig) DS9 28 9.06%
Odo (Rene Auberjonois) DS9 2 0.65%
Miles O'Brien (Colm Meaney) TNG/DS9 1 0.32%
Jake Sisko (Cirroc Lofton) DS9 4 1.29%
Dukat (Marc Alaimo) DS9 9 2.91%
Elim Garak (Andrew J. Robinson) DS9 8 2.59%
Damar (Casey Biggs) DS9 11 3.56%
Weyoun (Jeffrey Combs) DS9 7 2.27%
Bareil Antos (Philip Anglim) DS9 7 2.27%
Quark (Armin Shimerman) DS9 2 0.65%
Chakotay (Robert Beltran) VOY 19 6.15%
Tom Paris (Robert Duncan McNeill) VOY 11 3.56%
Tuvok (Tim Russ) VOY 6 1.94%
Harry Kim (Gareth Wang) VOY 9 2.91%
EMH/The Doctor (Robert Picardo) VOY 1 0.32%
Jonathan Archer (Scott Bakula) ENT 16 5.18%
Charles "Trip" Tucker III (Connor Trineer) ENT 27 8.74%
Travis Mayweather (Anthony Montgomery) ENT 7 2.27%
Malcolm Reed (Dominic Keeting) ENT 5 1.62%
George Kirk (Chris Hemsworth) STXI 10 3.24%
Nero (Eric Bana) STXI 7 2.27%
other (male) 9 2.91%
other (female) 20 6.47%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 309. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 18 2009, 02:41 PM   #151
DevilEyes
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
You're tossing around the word "fact" quite a bit here.

What documentation do you have for these "facts"?
I hadn't bothered to read his entire post the first time, but some of his so-called "facts" are not just dubious, but obviously wrong. Since he is not a woman, it is understandable that he is not aware of this, but the time of the month when a woman is actually in the physically "sexiest" or, if you will, horniest mood, is not ovulation, but pre-menstrual period and menstruation. And that's the time when a woman is least likely to get pregnant! I really would love to know how he explains that from the "it is all about reproduction" point of view?

This is really what all those so-called "facts" are like: men who postulated them claimed certain things - such as, that women are most sexually stimulated during ovulation - because they would support their thesis, not because of how much they are based on actual facts of life.

Or, he says "We find hairy bodies less attractive, because hair diminishes our cooling mechanism, full body sweating, that keeps our brains from overheating. Less body hair in our mates means offspring with less body hair, thus offspring that would be better and thus has better chances for surviving." Who is we? Men in general? Or people in general? As far as I am aware, there are quite a few women who love a certain degree of hairiness on a man. I think you'll find that female tastes vary in that respect. Some will tell you that hairy chest is "disgusting", other will tell you that it's masculine and sexy (and opinions will, again, be split on the acceptable level of hairiness). So how does that fit with those theories above? Unlike 3D Master, I will not speak for "everyone" or "we", but I will tell you that, while I am not into the Robin Williams-degree of hairiness I prefer to see a somewhat hairy male body (in the normal boundaries) and that I am turned off by men who shave their bodies. So there, I have just disproved the theory. Why am I no turned on by a totally hairless male body? I should be looking for a mate with a better cooling mechanism?
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Old August 18 2009, 04:38 PM   #152
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

Ahem, if it's all about fertility and breeding, what about gay folks?
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Old August 18 2009, 05:22 PM   #153
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

3D Master wrote: View Post
A hormonal imbalance. More hormones of the opposite sex will make the brain grow more like that of the opposite sex. Enough like the opposite sex will produce sexual attraction of the opposite sex; thus attraction toward the same sex. Produce even more of the hormones, and the brain grows so much of the opposite sex, people will feel like they are the oppoiste sex trapped in the wrong body.
OK, I've seen this, but it's not accurate. To quote the American Psychological Association:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles;"

It isn't theory, it's evidence and fact. You ask any man what the most attractive woman is in a line up, and each and every single one will pick the woman that has the figure closest to the 6/7:10 hip : waist ratio. And this is across cultural boundaries, and races.
There is an established correlation between WHR and attractiveness, but you're deriving some pretty bold conclusions from that fact. Indeed, I'd say it's quite clear that not every man will give the same answer. WHR may be important, but it isn't some magic factor that overrides all other aspects of a woman's appearance.
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Old August 18 2009, 08:08 PM   #154
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
You're tossing around the word "fact" quite a bit here.

What documentation do you have for these "facts"?
Go watch any documentary (series) on human sexuality, sex, and gender, like say "Brain Sex".

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
I hadn't bothered to read his entire post the first time, but some of his so-called "facts" are not just dubious, but obviously wrong. Since he is not a woman, it is understandable that he is not aware of this, but the time of the month when a woman is actually in the physically "sexiest" or, if you will, horniest mood, is not ovulation, but pre-menstrual period and menstruation. And that's the time when a woman is least likely to get pregnant! I really would love to know how he explains that from the "it is all about reproduction" point of view?
Most likely you're wrong, as it is a documented statistical fact that women dress sexier when they're ovulating, and are most likely to cheat when they are ovulation. That must be because they're not that sexually interested at all; it makes no sense.

This is really what all those so-called "facts" are like: men who postulated them claimed certain things - such as, that women are most sexually stimulated during ovulation - because they would support their thesis, not because of how much they are based on actual facts of life.
Nope, they keep propping up in research, not theory, but simple questionnaires and statistics.

Or, he says "We find hairy bodies less attractive, because hair diminishes our cooling mechanism, full body sweating, that keeps our brains from overheating. Less body hair in our mates means offspring with less body hair, thus offspring that would be better and thus has better chances for surviving." Who is we? Men in general? Or people in general? As far as I am aware, there are quite a few women who love a certain degree of hairiness on a man. I think you'll find that female tastes vary in that respect. Some will tell you that hairy chest is "disgusting", other will tell you that it's masculine and sexy (and opinions will, again, be split on the acceptable level of hairiness). So how does that fit with those theories above? Unlike 3D Master, I will not speak for "everyone" or "we", but I will tell you that, while I am not into the Robin Williams-degree of hairiness I prefer to see a somewhat hairy male body (in the normal boundaries) and that I am turned off by men who shave their bodies. So there, I have just disproved the theory. Why am I no turned on by a totally hairless male body? I should be looking for a mate with a better cooling mechanism?
BBC: Horizon - What's the Problem with Nudity? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j0hnm

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
A hormonal imbalance. More hormones of the opposite sex will make the brain grow more like that of the opposite sex. Enough like the opposite sex will produce sexual attraction of the opposite sex; thus attraction toward the same sex. Produce even more of the hormones, and the brain grows so much of the opposite sex, people will feel like they are the oppoiste sex trapped in the wrong body.
OK, I've seen this, but it's not accurate. To quote the American Psychological Association:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles;"
You know what the problem is with psychologists?

They're not neurologists.

In other words; if they admit that homosexuality and other issues, especially things that are problematic, are neurological in nature and not psychological in nature - they're all but out of job.

You go however to those who actually deal with genetics, the hormones, the neurology, the brain structure; anyone that did actual tests with the actual physical brains, you'll find not one of them will say it's nurture. It's all the structure of the brain with them, nothing to do with nurture at all.

It isn't theory, it's evidence and fact. You ask any man what the most attractive woman is in a line up, and each and every single one will pick the woman that has the figure closest to the 6/7:10 hip : waist ratio. And this is across cultural boundaries, and races.
There is an established correlation between WHR and attractiveness, but you're deriving some pretty bold conclusions from that fact. Indeed, I'd say it's quite clear that not every man will give the same answer. WHR may be important, but it isn't some magic factor that overrides all other aspects of a woman's appearance.
Which doesn't matter. Other factors come from the higher brain functions, they are capable of overriding instinct. However, instinctively, it's always the 6/7:10 WHR. That's the first part that attracts us, the WHR is even one of the first parts of another person's body we check out and a major part of how we determine (especially from afar) whether we're dealing with a man or a woman.

See the above BBC Horizon documentary.

Last edited by 3D Master; August 18 2009 at 08:20 PM.
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Old August 18 2009, 08:15 PM   #155
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

3D Master wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
You're tossing around the word "fact" quite a bit here.

What documentation do you have for these "facts"?
Go watch any documentary (series) on human sexuality, sex, and gender, like say "Brain Sex".
So your backup is "something I saw on TV"? That's not likely to win anyone over to your side of the discussion.
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Old August 18 2009, 08:21 PM   #156
3D Master
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
You're tossing around the word "fact" quite a bit here.

What documentation do you have for these "facts"?
Go watch any documentary (series) on human sexuality, sex, and gender, like say "Brain Sex".
So your backup is "something I saw on TV"? That's not likely to win anyone over to your side of the discussion.


It isn't simply "something one saw on tv", it's a documentary series made by scientists and experts in the field. It's about as close as you can get to doing the research yourself.
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Old August 18 2009, 08:49 PM   #157
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

3D Master wrote: View Post

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
I hadn't bothered to read his entire post the first time, but some of his so-called "facts" are not just dubious, but obviously wrong. Since he is not a woman, it is understandable that he is not aware of this, but the time of the month when a woman is actually in the physically "sexiest" or, if you will, horniest mood, is not ovulation, but pre-menstrual period and menstruation. And that's the time when a woman is least likely to get pregnant! I really would love to know how he explains that from the "it is all about reproduction" point of view?
Most likely you're wrong, as it is a documented statistical fact that women dress sexier when they're ovulating, and are most likely to cheat when they are ovulation. That must be because they're not that sexually interested at all; it makes no sense.
Um... I don't know when women are 'dressing sexier' (my guess is, when they are going out...) or 'more likely to cheat' (I would really love to know how that research was conducted!)... I am speaking of periods of higher physical arousal.Ovulation is one, but it is nowhere near, in my experience, to pre-menstrual/early menstrual period. I speak from experience, and OK, maybe I am some kind of aberation or freak of nature and no other woman in the world has similar hormonal cycles , but at least I can speak from experience, since I am female, which can't be said of some other people here who are professing to be the experts on female sexuality.

BBC: Horizon - What's the Problem with Nudity? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j0hnm
And what about it?
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Old August 18 2009, 09:18 PM   #158
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

3D Master wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post

Go watch any documentary (series) on human sexuality, sex, and gender, like say "Brain Sex".
So your backup is "something I saw on TV"? That's not likely to win anyone over to your side of the discussion.


It isn't simply "something one saw on tv", it's a documentary series made by scientists and experts in the field. It's about as close as you can get to doing the research yourself.
Yet you're quoting "facts" from memory and offering the reader nothing in the way of verification. You haven't done any research other than watching the show on TV, so your claims cannot be treated as fact. If you want to argue those items as opinion then that's very different and I will support your choice in doing so.
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Old August 18 2009, 10:03 PM   #159
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
BBC: Horizon - What's the Problem with Nudity? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j0hnm
And what about it?
Maybe you should go watch it.

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Yet you're quoting "facts" from memory and offering the reader nothing in the way of verification. You haven't done any research other than watching the show on TV, so your claims cannot be treated as fact. If you want to argue those items as opinion then that's very different and I will support your choice in doing so.
Everyone quotes facts from memory. And I've given plenty show as verification. Of course, that requires you to go watch the verification. And another thing, it is NOT a show. It's a documentary, and a scientific program. These things are not opinion; anyone who goes to watch those things, or look little around on human sexuality, will find the same things I'm saying.
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Old August 18 2009, 10:08 PM   #160
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

3D Master wrote: View Post
You know what the problem is with psychologists?

They're not neurologists.

In other words; if they admit that homosexuality and other issues, especially things that are problematic, are neurological in nature and not psychological in nature - they're all but out of job.

You go however to those who actually deal with genetics, the hormones, the neurology, the brain structure; anyone that did actual tests with the actual physical brains, you'll find not one of them will say it's nurture. It's all the structure of the brain with them, nothing to do with nurture at all.
So not just the hormones? I really doubt that a respected professional body is misrepresenting the evidence. See also the American Academy of Pediatrics: http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...113/6/1827.pdf
There's plenty of interesting research, but there is not, as far as I can see, a conclusive, widely accepted answer to the question of what determines sexual orientation. The point I'm trying to make is that your explanation of a hormonal imbalance is an oversimplification. It may contain part of the truth, but it probably isn't the whole truth.

Lord knows why I'm posting this on a Star Trek message board
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Old August 18 2009, 10:59 PM   #161
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
You know what the problem is with psychologists?

They're not neurologists.

In other words; if they admit that homosexuality and other issues, especially things that are problematic, are neurological in nature and not psychological in nature - they're all but out of job.

You go however to those who actually deal with genetics, the hormones, the neurology, the brain structure; anyone that did actual tests with the actual physical brains, you'll find not one of them will say it's nurture. It's all the structure of the brain with them, nothing to do with nurture at all.
So not just the hormones?
I never said it was just hormones. I said that levels of hormones determine how a brain - aka neurologically - grows.

I really doubt that a respected professional body is misrepresenting the evidence. See also the American Academy of Pediatrics: http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...113/6/1827.pdf
There's plenty of interesting research, but there is not, as far as I can see, a conclusive, widely accepted answer to the question of what determines sexual orientation. The point I'm trying to make is that your explanation of a hormonal imbalance is an oversimplification. It may contain part of the truth, but it probably isn't the whole truth.

Lord knows why I'm posting this on a Star Trek message board
There's another problem with both these groups: they're Americans. This is the country that houses fundamentalist Christianity on a scale nowhere else found in the western world. And that Christianity loves to think that gays are evil sinners that go to hell, unless they save them from themselves in anti-gay camps. And that lot has power and money in America, and that means ways to influence things, and a group you don't want to piss off.

Go outside of America, and you're hard pressed to find anyone who thinks homosexuality comes from nurture not nature, that is, if you find even one at all.
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Old August 18 2009, 11:06 PM   #162
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

^ Please don't start any discussions about Christianity in this thread. I don't want to have it closed.
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Old August 18 2009, 11:42 PM   #163
Pemmer Harge
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

3D Master wrote: View Post
Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
You know what the problem is with psychologists?

They're not neurologists.

In other words; if they admit that homosexuality and other issues, especially things that are problematic, are neurological in nature and not psychological in nature - they're all but out of job.

You go however to those who actually deal with genetics, the hormones, the neurology, the brain structure; anyone that did actual tests with the actual physical brains, you'll find not one of them will say it's nurture. It's all the structure of the brain with them, nothing to do with nurture at all.
So not just the hormones?
I never said it was just hormones. I said that levels of hormones determine how a brain - aka neurologically - grows.

I really doubt that a respected professional body is misrepresenting the evidence. See also the American Academy of Pediatrics: http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...113/6/1827.pdf
There's plenty of interesting research, but there is not, as far as I can see, a conclusive, widely accepted answer to the question of what determines sexual orientation. The point I'm trying to make is that your explanation of a hormonal imbalance is an oversimplification. It may contain part of the truth, but it probably isn't the whole truth.

Lord knows why I'm posting this on a Star Trek message board
There's another problem with both these groups: they're Americans. This is the country that houses fundamentalist Christianity on a scale nowhere else found in the western world. And that Christianity loves to think that gays are evil sinners that go to hell, unless they save them from themselves in anti-gay camps. And that lot has power and money in America, and that means ways to influence things, and a group you don't want to piss off.

Go outside of America, and you're hard pressed to find anyone who thinks homosexuality comes from nurture not nature, that is, if you find even one at all.
I find it hard to believe that American medical associations lie about science to appease the homophobes.
I never said homosexuality came from nurture rather than nature - I merely pointed out that there is not the consensus you suggested. I suspect few scientists would suggest that homosexuality is caused purely by environmental factors, but that does not necessarily mean that there is not an environmental component in addition to the genetic and developmental ones - see here for a Swedish (not American) study suggesting something like this. Maybe environmental factors don't play any role at all, but even then, there is not a consensus on what precisely causes homosexuality.
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Old August 18 2009, 11:56 PM   #164
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

Sorry, here's the link to that study. I can't vouch for its validity, since I'm certainly no expert. I'm merely linking to it to demonstrate that researchers are looking at environmental factors and not just in America.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18536986
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Old August 19 2009, 12:02 AM   #165
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Re: The all-inclusive "Sexiest Trek character" poll

OK, I think I've said all I've got to say about this and I'm conscious that we're now way off topic. My point was simply that things are a bit more complicated and uncertain than 3D Master suggested.
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