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Old August 1 2009, 02:08 AM   #31
Galactus
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Ethnic heroes already exist (John Stewart, Blade, Storm, Forge, Bishop, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, Misty Knight, et al). You don't need to radically alter existing heroes to suit some PC notion of "representation".
So you don't want "white" heroes interacting with other heroes?? WTF are you saying here?
He's saying, we got enough of those heroes and dont make any white heroes black.

Not sure what that has to do with this topic.
That is my fault. I was just pointing out how what he said in my thread about diversity in the new world does not match what he said in this thread.

And yes it sounds like you both have it exactly right.
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Old August 1 2009, 02:35 AM   #32
darkwing_duck1
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Galactus wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1

Ok see this is what I was talking about. You don't want "your" heroes changed to reflect the world. I think you said create your own heroes.
And I stand by that. Ethnic heroes already exist (John Stewart, Blade, Storm, Forge, Bishop, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, Misty Knight, et al). You don't need to radically alter existing heroes to suit some PC notion of "representation".



I have no problem with Muslem/Arab heroes. Several already exist in the MU. My initial impression of THIS project was that it was a Captain Planet style polemic "puff piece".

So good sir, what exactly would you like to be done for those of us who want to see stories told from a different POV.
I would like to see an honest and unflinching look at the implications of such characters.

One example of a story involving an Arab ethnic hero that I thought was particularly well told was the confrontation between Sabra and Batal (the Syrian Super Soldier) in New Warriors 58-59.

On the flip side, Heaven's Fist (a terrorist team) appeared in the pages of Stormwatch back in the late 90s. Again, an unflinching look at what a combination of superpowers and dangerously radical beleif is capable of.

Stormwatch, by the way, had all MANNER of ethnic characters in it's ranks, INCLUDING Muslems (Damascus, for example).
Muslem??? Is that on purpose?

Why an "unflinching look"? Would you want an unfliching look at a "combination of superpowers and dangerously radical beleif" if said "beleif" was a radical form of Christianity?
Been done.
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Old August 1 2009, 02:42 AM   #33
darkwing_duck1
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Ethnic heroes already exist (John Stewart, Blade, Storm, Forge, Bishop, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, Misty Knight, et al). You don't need to radically alter existing heroes to suit some PC notion of "representation".
So you don't want "white" heroes interacting with other heroes?? WTF are you saying here?
This is actually a continuation of a debate from another thread, and a bit OT for this one.. Galactus maintains that it is perfectly acceptable to redefine existing characters "to suit modern tastes" by changing things like their race, gender, sexual preference, et al for no other reason than to increase "minority representation" in comics. That is to say, for example: Superman depicted as a black man, or Bruce Wayne as a homosexual, when they have NEVER been so depicted.

I maintain that (for example) if you want a black, lesbian atheist character then you should go create a new character to be one. Don't take the Scarlet Witch and make HER a black lesbian atheist just so there is one represented.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Ethnic heroes already exist (John Stewart, Blade, Storm, Forge, Bishop, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, Misty Knight, et al). You don't need to radically alter existing heroes to suit some PC notion of "representation".
So you don't want "white" heroes interacting with other heroes?? WTF are you saying here?
He's saying, we got enough of those heroes and dont make any white heroes black.

Not sure what that has to do with this topic.
See above...

At any rate, this is OT for this thread...moving on...
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Old August 1 2009, 04:32 AM   #34
Nerys Myk
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post

And I stand by that. Ethnic heroes already exist (John Stewart, Blade, Storm, Forge, Bishop, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, Misty Knight, et al). You don't need to radically alter existing heroes to suit some PC notion of "representation".



I have no problem with Muslem/Arab heroes. Several already exist in the MU. My initial impression of THIS project was that it was a Captain Planet style polemic "puff piece".



I would like to see an honest and unflinching look at the implications of such characters.

One example of a story involving an Arab ethnic hero that I thought was particularly well told was the confrontation between Sabra and Batal (the Syrian Super Soldier) in New Warriors 58-59.

On the flip side, Heaven's Fist (a terrorist team) appeared in the pages of Stormwatch back in the late 90s. Again, an unflinching look at what a combination of superpowers and dangerously radical beleif is capable of.

Stormwatch, by the way, had all MANNER of ethnic characters in it's ranks, INCLUDING Muslems (Damascus, for example).
Muslem??? Is that on purpose?

Why an "unflinching look"? Would you want an unfliching look at a "combination of superpowers and dangerously radical beleif" if said "beleif" was a radical form of Christianity?
Been done.
Has it? Refresh my memory. Though IIRC, bad "Muslims" with Superpowers has been done too. I think the Suicide Squad fought such a team in the 80s.

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Ethnic heroes already exist (John Stewart, Blade, Storm, Forge, Bishop, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, Misty Knight, et al). You don't need to radically alter existing heroes to suit some PC notion of "representation".
So you don't want "white" heroes interacting with other heroes?? WTF are you saying here?
This is actually a continuation of a debate from another thread, and a bit OT for this one.. Galactus maintains that it is perfectly acceptable to redefine existing characters "to suit modern tastes" by changing things like their race, gender, sexual preference, et al for no other reason than to increase "minority representation" in comics. That is to say, for example: Superman depicted as a black man, or Bruce Wayne as a homosexual, when they have NEVER been so depicted.

I maintain that (for example) if you want a black, lesbian atheist character then you should go create a new character to be one. Don't take the Scarlet Witch and make HER a black lesbian atheist just so there is one represented.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
So you don't want "white" heroes interacting with other heroes?? WTF are you saying here?
He's saying, we got enough of those heroes and dont make any white heroes black.

Not sure what that has to do with this topic.
See above...

At any rate, this is OT for this thread...moving on...
Still not seeing the connection. None of the 99 are old heroes with minority faces.

Do you object to John Stewert as Green Lantern or Michael Holt as Mister Terrific? Would a black Superman or a Gay Bruce Wayne be any different than a Brunette "Green Lantern" replacing a Blond "Green Lantern" or a 6 foot "Atom" replacing a 5 foot "Atom'? How about an Alien "Hawkman" replacing a human one?
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Last edited by Nerys Myk; August 1 2009 at 04:42 AM.
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Old August 1 2009, 01:15 PM   #35
QuasarVM
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

[QUOTE=darkwing_duck1;3251823][QUOTE=Misfit Toy;3251614]
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
I maintain that (for example) if you want a black, lesbian atheist character then you should go create a new character to be one. Don't take the Scarlet Witch and make HER a black lesbian atheist just so there is one represented.

Something to be said for that approach...and here -- I'll say it (satirically):

Personally, I'm looking forward to AC/DC Comics' The New Adventures of CaptainCarpetMuncher, The Human Flamer and AtheistAvenger. CaptainCarpetMuncher, AbortionGirl and LesbianLad struggle against the tyranny of KonservativeKreep -- whose appearance and demeanor is a strange (?) hybrid of Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh! Issue number one details their all-important origin story and first mission as kontroversial krimestoppers and includes a special appearance by President Barack Hussein Obama when he sends them forth on their mission of hope and change -- and to take on KonservativeKreep's brother KonstitutionKreep (who looks strangely like Newt (gasp!) Gingrich!). Rumour has it that if these are successful, AC/DC comics will introduce two new titles based on two new boundary-busting characters -- The Purple Polygamist and BestialityBoy (with his super-dog sidekick, Humperdink).

You know sales for these will be on fire!

Everybody who is anybody will want the latest issues issue to see them do battle with a rogues gallery of controversial arch villains -- Kristi Hannity (and her alter ego Sarah Palin), Morality Maiden (who looks strangely like former Miss California contestant, Carrie Prejean), Ethics Man, Values Vixen (who looks strangely like Sarah Palin and yet ISN'T because she's Kristi Hannitys' alter ego -- duh.) and The Traditional Triad (Or "Triple T"; a deadly trio whose heinous mission is the rigourous preservation of traditional American values wherever they may survive. Alter egos Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage struggle to evade the mainstream media forces and it's superhero leaders The Human Flamer and AtheistAvenger!)!

These are sure to keep online geeks embroiled in heated (flaming?) discussion all over the internet -- and beyond!

In fact, rumours of a MOVIE based on The Adventures of Captain Carpet Muncher, Human Flamer and AtheistAvenger are running rampant! These include casting rumors as well. It is rumored that Rosie McDonald (who is alledgedly pursuing a rapid weight loss plan to be able to fit into the skin-tight leather costume; she wants to get back into Betty Rubble shape!) will play Captain Carpet Muncher although Anne Heche is pulling a Sean Young (when she desparately pursued the role of Cat Woman in Batman Returns!) and has even shown up IN COSTUME at casting sessions.

Human Flamer is alledgedly being played either by David Hyde Pierce or George Takei...outcome TBA.

According to rumour, Brad Pitt (who recently admitted is truly IS an atheist/agnostic!) has the role of AtheistAvenger locked up. When his buddy, Sean Penn found out about the film, he alledgedly demanded that the writers include a new character -- SeditionMan -- and that HE be cast in the role!

Rumours are running rampant! Other casting TBD. The film is rumoured to be released on December 12 2012 and expected to be a cataclysmic hit at the box office.

Last edited by QuasarVM; August 1 2009 at 01:54 PM.
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Old August 1 2009, 01:21 PM   #36
darkwing_duck1
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Muslem??? Is that on purpose?

Why an "unflinching look"? Would you want an unfliching look at a "combination of superpowers and dangerously radical beleif" if said "beleif" was a radical form of Christianity?
Been done.
Has it? Refresh my memory.
Most recently with Magdalena, whose entire origin turned out to be a lie by the Catholic Church. The old Image stable had loads of "Christian" groups and characters of dubious fidelity to Christian standards.

For a larger list of "Christian" villains, go here:

http://www.comicbookreligion.com/?start=600&IsVillain=1

start with records 601-650 and go from there.

Do you object to John Stewert as Green Lantern or Michael Holt as Mister Terrific? Would a black Superman or a Gay Bruce Wayne be any different than a Brunette "Green Lantern" replacing a Blond "Green Lantern" or a 6 foot "Atom" replacing a 5 foot "Atom'? How about an Alien "Hawkman" replacing a human one?
Not what we're talking about...we're talking about re-engineering EXISTING characters, not replacements with the same name.
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Old August 1 2009, 01:23 PM   #37
darkwing_duck1
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

[QUOTE=QuasarVM;3252702][QUOTE=darkwing_duck1;3251823]
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post


Something to be said for that approach...and here -- I'll say it:

Personally, I'm looking forward to AC/DC Comics' The New Adventures of CaptainCarpetMuncher, The Human Flamer and AtheistAvenger. CaptainCarpetMuncher, AbortionGirl and LesbianLad struggle against the tyranny of KonservativeKreep -- whose appearance is a strange hybrid of Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh! Issue number one details their first mission as kontroversial krimestoppers and includes a special appearance by President Barack Hussein Obama when he sends them forth on their mission of hope and change. Rumour has it that if these are successful, AC/DC comics will introduce two new titles based on two new boundary-pushing characters -- The Purple Polygamist and BestialityBoy.

You know sales for these will be on fire!

Everybody who is anybody will want the latest issues issue to see them do battle with a rogues gallery of controversial arch villains -- Kristi Hannity (and her alter ego Sarah Palin), Morality Maiden, Ethics Man, Values Vixen and the Traditional Triad (a deadly trio whose heinous mission is the rigourous preservation of traditional American values wherever they may survive. Alter egos Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage struggle to evade the mainstream media forces and it's superhero leaders The Human Flamer and AtheistAvenger!)!

These are sure to keep online geeks embroiled in heated discussion all over the internet -- and beyond!
Whoever you are, you aren't helping...GO AWAY!
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Old August 1 2009, 02:04 PM   #38
QuasarVM
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

[QUOTE=darkwing_duck1;3252710][QUOTE=QuasarVM;3252702]
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post

Whoever you are, you aren't helping...GO AWAY!

1. I'm not trying to "help", and...
2. NO!

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Old August 1 2009, 02:06 PM   #39
QuasarVM
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
QuasarVM wrote: View Post
Oh good! Finally the long-awaited team up with JihadBoy and SuicideGirl!

With their I.R.E. (Improvised Roadside Explosives) Organization they are sure to be an asset to the Dynamic Duo and purge all infidel criminals from the holy lands...and beyond!

Complications arise when JihadBoy and SuicideGirl discover that the Dynamic Duo must be beheaded with a dull butter knife -- as they too are infidels.
This is incredibly racist, but hilarious.
Heheehehheh!!! Anything for a laugh.
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Old August 1 2009, 02:14 PM   #40
Misfit Toy
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Ethnic heroes already exist (John Stewart, Blade, Storm, Forge, Bishop, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, Misty Knight, et al). You don't need to radically alter existing heroes to suit some PC notion of "representation".
So you don't want "white" heroes interacting with other heroes?? WTF are you saying here?
This is actually a continuation of a debate from another thread, and a bit OT for this one.. Galactus maintains that it is perfectly acceptable to redefine existing characters "to suit modern tastes" by changing things like their race, gender, sexual preference, et al for no other reason than to increase "minority representation" in comics. That is to say, for example: Superman depicted as a black man, or Bruce Wayne as a homosexual, when they have NEVER been so depicted.

I maintain that (for example) if you want a black, lesbian atheist character then you should go create a new character to be one. Don't take the Scarlet Witch and make HER a black lesbian atheist just so there is one represented.
Thanks for the clarification. For the record, unless you're talking about an "Elseworlds" situation, I agree with your stance on the matter.
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Old August 1 2009, 02:21 PM   #41
theenglish
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Doubtful. It's just a product made for people who don't feel the same way you do. There's nothing wrong with that, is there?
There may be, there may NOT be. The timing and the hoopla seem a bit fishy to me. A lot will depend on how it's written I suppose. Will these "good Muslem heroes" be shown cleaning house on Talibans and Al-Qs or will this be a "learning experince" puff job where the "westerners" learn that "everthing they (think) they know about Muslems is wrong"?
Again, either way, it's made for people who don't think like you do. Why MUST it conform to your philosophy in order to be "right"? Don't you support free enterprise?
Or better yet, would it hurt you to read something that might ask you to question your biases and philosophy suggesting that the truth may be larger with a lot more grey than black and white?

Here is a link to an interview with the creator of the 99. There is some other stuff in the episode too, but I think the segment relevant to this thread is first up:

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/qpodcast_20090713_18062.mp3

It is a

Last edited by theenglish; August 1 2009 at 02:36 PM.
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Old August 1 2009, 04:22 PM   #42
TheMasterOfOrion
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

QuasarVM wrote: View Post
Complications arise when JihadBoy and SuicideGirl discover that the Dynamic Duo must be beheaded with a dull butter knife -- as they too are infidels.
As long as the Jews or Israelis don't show up in its pages this series should do fine in the middle east
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Old August 1 2009, 04:36 PM   #43
QuasarVM
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

TheMasterOfOrion wrote: View Post
QuasarVM wrote: View Post
Complications arise when JihadBoy and SuicideGirl discover that the Dynamic Duo must be beheaded with a dull butter knife -- as they too are infidels.
As long as the Jews or Israelis don't show up in its pages this series should do fine in the middle east

Yeah really!
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Old August 1 2009, 04:45 PM   #44
Nardpuncher
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

Just be careful that you aren't defending one religion ( Islam) so hard that you are doing it just to make yourself look open minded.
If you didn't really like the idea of religion before you read this thread, don't defend it in any guise after you've read it.

Here's the list of the 99 attributes of Allah. If anyone really believes that this is somehow the way that the universe began or anything close to that, or that this is any way the world really works is ...well, they're very religious...let's say that. http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html

Last edited by Nardpuncher; August 1 2009 at 05:30 PM.
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Old August 1 2009, 06:40 PM   #45
Dusty Ayres
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Re: Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
This is actually a continuation of a debate from another thread, and a bit OT for this one.. Galactus maintains that it is perfectly acceptable to redefine existing characters "to suit modern tastes" by changing things like their race, gender, sexual preference, et al for no other reason than to increase "minority representation" in comics. That is to say, for example: Superman depicted as a black man, or Bruce Wayne as a homosexual, when they have NEVER been so depicted.

I maintain that (for example) if you want a black, lesbian atheist character then you should go create a new character to be one. Don't take the Scarlet Witch and make HER a black lesbian atheist just so there is one represented.
For once, and only this one time in this thread, we agree.
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