Since the old one got shut down (RIP), here is a new thread for discussing police abuse and brutality in the US, especially as it pertains to the treatment of people of color. Here are a couple of "fun" stories for today. Black kids show up to a public pool to enjoy some fun on a hot day. This is not going to go anywhere positive, is it? Nope! Then the cops showed up. [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R46-XTqXkzE[/yt] Fortunately, the cop involved has been suspended since it's a little ridiculous to rush into a neighborhood and draw your gun on people who aren't doing anything. And here's another fun video of a different incident. Some people try an experiment: a white guy open-carries an AR-15. The cop he encounters is clearly not thrilled with his behavior but doesn't lose his shit over it. Same experiment is also tried, but with a black man carrying the rifle. No points for guessing how police react to that. [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6jzzh-FZgs[/yt] Fortunately, in both these cases, no one was seriously hurt or killed. Nevertheless, events like this seem to be daily life for black Americans, at least whenever they encounter the police. So, does the US have a policing problem? A racist policing problem? Is there anyone who would argue it doesn't, at this point?
Thanks for starting this. I had to close the other thread down because of drama, but I definitely think this is a subject worthy of continuous attention and discussion.
Based on the alleged comments by adult civilians, I don't think we can narrowly define it as a racist policing problem. It sounds more like the general attitude of the community that's hiring these officers. It's fine that children are becoming more aware of racism and ways to reduce it, but the people who really need the training got out of school long ago.
I don't really get what you're saying. I don't think systemic racism is in any way isolated or confined to police, it's just that police tend to be the front line of interaction between citizens and their government. When you combine this with a system that is already predisposed to treating black people poorly (which ours certainly is), and have police who've been indoctrinated with (or brought with them) an "us vs. them" mentality, you have a recipe for incidents like this, and much worse. It's not solely about racism, sure, but neither can we deny that racism is a major component of this problem. It's not as if police tend to roll up on white kids and shoot them, and yet we have numerous examples of exactly that happening to young black people. The issue at this point isn't really one of training, either. It's about what behavior is tolerated and what isn't. When prosecutors won't charge bad cops, when grand juries won't indict them, and when judges and juries won't convict them, you send a clear message that this behavior is perfectly fine and you'll face no consequences for it. That has to change, regardless of whatever new training regimen is introduced. And that's the kind of system/society wide change you only get by raising up these issues and making it to clear to everyone what's going on, and how unjust it is. Some people may be full-on racists about it and just think "meh, whatever, just dead n*****s," but I don't believe most people think that way. They're just genuinely ignorant of how bad the situation is, and might think differently about it if they really knew what was going on.
I think it is fairly obvious that we do at this point. Have we ever heard of a cop of any race body slamming a 14 year-old white girl in a bikini?
I believe the militarization of our police forces is the problem. They are using military weapons, hiring combat soldiers, etc. I am against hiring combat soldiers, because many tend to believe they are still at war, often to disastrous results. Those of us who remember the 1960s still retain images of police beating unarmed civilians who dare to disagree with our government. Current images are disturbingly similar. Images of police beating black civilians who dared to stand up for their right to equality remind me of Baltimore, Fulton and other peaceful protests. Nowhere in the posted video did I see police grab any white people... at all. Only the black children. That the bystanders encouraged this behavior proves that the community condones this behavior. The only ray of hope was in seeing the white man offer aid and comfort to those poor children. FULL DISCLOSURE: I am a combat veteran who was hired as a police officer upon returning to civilian life. I speak from experience. I left the force after seeing racism and favoritism rampant in Southern police forces.
It is probably for the best that this sort of shit never goes down where I live. If I had seen the whole thing, that one cop probably wouldn't be happy with me, telling them that if they are going to arrest anyone, they should be arresting the mom who was instigated and was laughing at the whole thing. I would've been tempted to attempt a citizen's arrest myself, because that sort of behavior pisses me off! I'm white, so he probably wouldn't've drawn his gun on me while I would've been trying to come to that young women's defense, unless I did it at the same time that her friends tried to do something, but I imagine I'd be the second non-black kid forced to sit in that grass, and my parents wouldn't've been happy with me by the end of the day. FULL DISCLOSURE: I am a combat veteran who was hired as a police officer upon returning to civilian life. I speak from experience. I left the force after seeing racism and favoritism rampant in Southern police forces.[/QUOTE] I would be surprised if you were the only one who has quit the force out of disgust of the racism/favoritism that seems to be running rampant. A pity, since I'm sure these folks are always hoping for an officer who is impartial, and will come to listen to their side of the story. I would hope that maybe then, racists who antagonizes occasions like this might find themselves in handcuffs, rather than laughing from the sidelines. Or maybe I'm just naive, since I don't know how the dynamics work between different police officers who have different points of view.
Melakon can correct me if I'm reading what he said wrong, but in the context that he used the word "training," it seems that he meant "becoming more aware of racism and ways to reduce it," the passage I've underlined. Is training the right word for this sort of thing? Probably not; either instruction or education in anti-racism would both probably have been both clearer and more apt. Otherwise, you and Melakon seem to be saying very similar things and making many of the same points. Melakon said that the problem of racist police behavior has broader roots than just the police themselves and extends into the policed community. You said that prosecutors, grand juries, judges, and juries are part of the problem. There is a great deal of overlap in these positions. You said that training can't solve the problem of how prosecutors, grand juries, judges, and juries behave, and that's certainly true if one means training of the police. Melakon's point seemed to be that, since they are out of school now, there is no institutional mechanism available to instruct adults who are in the community at large in anti-racism. Here, too, there is a great deal of overlap. Again, it seems that the issue of misunderstanding comes down to use of the word "training."
That sounds pretty good. It was 7am when I wrote that earlier, the cooling system had been out for over 48 hours, so I'm not sure what I was trying to say.
Yesterday, a video appeared in my Facebook feed about Josh Duggar. I clicked on it and started to read some of the comments most of which were stating that Josh was only a child and it was just typical teenage behaviour, God and his sisters had forgiven him etc. Thinking WTF, I looked at whose page it was and it was Fox News Video. Today, after reading about the pool party and the treatment of the girl, I decided to go to Fox News Video to see if it was being covered. Unsurprisingly it was and most of the comments were saying the girl deserved her treatment, that a 15 year old should know not to behave like that etc. I think that this shows how differently black children are treated when compared to privileged white children, at least by some people.
Absolutely agreed, one hundred percent. The response of the police in Ferguson to some instances of unrest was to break out weapons that would constitute war crimes in a military conflict.
That makes sense. If we're talking about education more broadly, I think something that's not taken seriously in the US is the idea of everyone owning our history. White people tend to view slavery, segregation, etc. as things that "happened" to black people. But those things didn't "happen." They were deliberately put in place, by white people. To a great extent, we do not "own" that. It makes it very easy to claim racism is over and we're a pure meritocracy when white people can, for the most part, get away with just not thinking about racism or race in America. That attitude really has to change. Racism is everyone's problem. Our history is our history--the bad parts don't belong solely to the victims and their descendants. We must own it, take responsibility for it, and change its legacy.
Two things stand out to me in this video. When the kids return the flashlight to that one officer, he was actually doing what the police should be doing, de escalating. Then the other cop runs over in full rampage mode and forces the kids he was talking to onto the ground. Then later on when he draws his gun, the other two guys actually seem to run towards him like "what the fuck are doing?" The other cops seemed to be confused the whole time and seemed to be wondering what exactly the endgame was going to be. Unfortunately, the psycho seemed to be the ranking guy on the scene from what I've been told. I think he was just angry because he got embarrassed when he tripped and did that ridiculous commando roll. I can't wait to see the actual reason for the suspension. Was it the drawing of a firearm or the heavy handed take down of the teenage girl who had the audacity to say some parting words while she was following his instructions to leave? Hopefully it was both.
Yeah, I couldn't help but notice what the other cops were doing when he drew is pistol, like "hey, dude, what are you doing, you're going too far! Calm down, it's okay!" Something tells me that the Texan western heat wasn't helping matters. And yeah, it is definitely both for tackling that young woman to ground and roughly restraining her, and then drawing his pistol when her friends tried to come to her aid, which even I would've wanted to do if I was there, friend or not, because she was clearly scared out of her mind. I don't think she ever got so roughly treated, especially by a police officer. I hope this experience doesn't make her scared of the police.
It is indeed an excellent book on the topic. I read it recently and found it very informative. It is useful to be aware of author Radley Balko's limitations, though. He's a conservative writer whose POV surrounds maximizing civil liberties. Good in theory, but it has some limitations. He's spot-on that the drug war was instrumental in militarizing American police, however he puts forth the narrative that this was primarily the result of panic over counterculture hippies, and dramatically downplays the racial politics of police brutality. Many of his examples of police excess in the book surround harmless, oblivious white people getting their shit kicked in by lunatic cops. Such things have happened and do happen, but I think he does readers a disservice by essentially ignoring that the bulk of police abuses are inflicted against people of color, and that this echoes through the rest of the justice system. The innocent, sometimes relatively well-off, white people who fall victim to police abuse also tend to get their day in court, and a hefty payday for their trouble. The people of color who suffer under police violence rarely get their justice. Now, one could argue Balko's motivations in crafting the narrative the way he did. It may be that his intention was to convince average white people that they, too, had something to fear from militarized police. Or, he truly doesn't make much of a distinction between how police treat white people and how they treat everyone else. Either way, in the book he routinely dances around this elephant in the room, and it stood out quite a bit as I was reading it. I think that aspect deserved at least a chapter of its own, and who knows. Maybe if there is a future edition of the book, he will add one. I think he should, because it's impossible to grasp the full scope of police abuse in the US without being aware of the highly racialized disparities involved.