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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old February 15 2014, 04:34 AM   #16
austen_pierce
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

Neither good actors nor good characters can make up for bad writing. We would have gotten an abomination, which we would have panned and hated even more than the movie as it is (which we all hate... yet own)
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Old February 15 2014, 12:36 PM   #17
Khan 2.0
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Botany Bay wrote: View Post
I remember reading in an old magazine (Starlog, or perhaps the official Next Gen mag?) an article by a writer who pitched a return-of-Khan episode for TNG. Apparently it was very well received, but Ricardo Montalban could not be persuaded to appear, and the idea was dropped.
As a clone? How else would they have done it?
If it's the one I heard about (many a year ago), it was suppose to be an effect of the Genesis Device/Wave. Can't recall the details beyond the "If Genesis brought Spock back, why not Khan" being the alleged pitch.
i guess for a TNG 2parter or Nemesis it couldve been something like an augment worshipping nut (like Arik Soong but not him) harnessing something like Khans DNA & maybe something to do with Genesis and bringing him back...then things get out of control and khan goes full wrath of khan
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Old February 15 2014, 02:32 PM   #18
Brutal Strudel
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Neither good actors nor good characters can make up for bad writing. We would have gotten an abomination, which we would have panned and hated even more than the movie as it is (which we all hate... yet own)
This. The Wrath of Khan took an actor best known for starring in one of the worst television shows ever made and selling Chryslers on the basis of "rich Corinthian leather" and gave him such great material (and a license to chew scenery like a teething sehlat cub) that his villainy has never been matched. The Search for Spock, while hardly a great film, re-defined the Klingons on the strength of a performance from an actor best known as a lovable acid casualty cab driver. Generations, by contrast, couldn't make a compelling villain out of the actor who personified one of SF's greatest cinematic monsters and Insurrection drowned Amadeus's Salieri under bad makeup, bad dialogue and nonsensical motivation. Tom Hardy thought his career was over before it started when Nemesis tanked. A decade later, he's one of Hollywood's hottest actors.

It should be noted, however, that the largely unknown Alice Krige does such a good job as the Borg Queen that she almost makes the violence the idea of a consciously malevolent dominatrix did to the more chilling idea of a relentless, faceless enemy that couldn't comprehend why its attempts "to improve quality of life for all species" were being so strenuously resisted.

I guess what I'm saying is that the TNG movies kinda suck all around.
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Old February 18 2014, 09:44 PM   #19
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Neither good actors nor good characters can make up for bad writing.
Which was proven with Nemesis. Hardy is a better actor than Montalban was.
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Old February 18 2014, 10:22 PM   #20
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

CaptPapa wrote: View Post
They say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It's also the lowest form of talent.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of...TELEVISION!"
Mighty Mouse, "Don't Touch That Dial"
Mighty Mouse The New Adventures, 1988.
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Old March 2 2014, 11:01 PM   #21
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

Botany Bay wrote: View Post
I remember reading in an old magazine (Starlog, or perhaps the official Next Gen mag?) an article by a writer who pitched a return-of-Khan episode for TNG. Apparently it was very well received, but Ricardo Montalban could not be persuaded to appear, and the idea was dropped.
I can see how it might have been done.

First, I would use new CGI effects to show parts of the space battle in ST II that resulted in damage we only saw in ST III in spacedock--new footage of the two ships really going at it.

We flashback to Khan slumping down after starting the Genesis wave.

The turbolift doors burst open, and an unknown character bursts through, races over, and lifts khan from the deck. He makes it to a Killer Bee and leaves Reliant, departing along a path over the "top" of Reliant.

Khan, like Spock, is resurrected by the Genesis planet.

Khan, still weak, is helped back into the killer bee.

His aide is the only other survivor. They see the Enterprise, after its faulty self destruct, start to burn up, but skipping back out of the atmosphere, below the horizon where Kirk interpreted it would come down.

This can be seen as an illusion as was the case with an early R-7 flight: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/971/1

"...In order to achieve orbital velocity as efficiently as possible, the rocket would change to a horizontal flight path as soon as it was above most of the atmosphere. Once it gained enough velocity in that lower orbit, it would successfully “fall over the receding horizon” and remain in Earth orbit.With later experience, the view that had so anguished the eyewitnesses to the birth of the very first artificial satellite became understood as a “normal” feature of how spaceflight should look to human eyes and brains.

Only rockets aimed to fall back to Earth, as the long-range bombardment missiles were, counter-intuitively appear to fade away and disappear as they soar upward. Conversely, in the new common sense of the minutes-old Space Age, rockets not intended to fall back to Earth appear, instead, to head downward towards the far horizon.

http://jamesoberg.com/




So the original Enterprise skipped back out along a Molniya orbit. It had lost enough velocity that it would strike the genesis planet on the next go--in the same way the Teton event of 1972 (Great Daylight Fireball) was a space body slated to do a resonant return in the 1990s.

By that time, the Genesis planet came apart, and Enterprise passed through the debris field--with Khan and his aide recovering in the wreckage.

A second ship is dispatched after Kirk and company leave, looking for any survivors of the Grissom, and see a badly damaged Enterprise looking very like the wreck of the Constellation, floating amidst asteroids.

And they are confronted by a very unpleasant pair of augments.

The Return Of Khan...
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Old March 3 2014, 03:47 AM   #22
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

Maurice wrote: View Post
CaptPapa wrote: View Post
They say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It's also the lowest form of talent.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of...TELEVISION!"
Mighty Mouse, "Don't Touch That Dial"
Mighty Mouse The New Adventures, 1988.
… Quoting Fred Allen, if i'm not mistaken.
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Old March 6 2014, 07:52 AM   #23
GalaxyX
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Re: What if theyd brought back Khan for Nemesis?

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Neither good actors nor good characters can make up for bad writing. We would have gotten an abomination, which we would have panned and hated even more than the movie as it is (which we all hate... yet own)
I only own Nemesis because Paramounts force-fed me the TNG movies if I wanted to own the TOS movie set. This was back before Blu-Rays were as common as they are now, so it's a DVD set.

Well guess what Paramount? Fuck you! I haven't and will NOT buy the Blu-Ray version of any movie, ESPECIALLY since you won't pony up the cash to do TMP: DE in Blu-Ray, and you won't pony up the cash to fix TFF's horrible FX. So if I have no reason to purchase the TOS movies on Blu-Ray, what possible incentive is there for me to buy the TNG Blu-Rays?
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